Gender reassignment/affirming surgery

[Ignatius A]

Gender, being a social construct, has always been as complex as any other human social element.

I disagree. Men were men and women were women. No one was confused. We knew some men were more efeminate and some women were more masculine. No one really cared but no one was "perplexed" about the person's gender. This new ideology is pure nonsense.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Cool. So what was the big problem again? Why videotape someone who was minding their own business and not engaging with anyone else, not naked and not "shaking his weeny around?" In other words, someone who was just doing what people do in change rooms?

So not much at all then. Was the person being videotaped even looking at this minor at all, or just minding their own business?

The story is kinda lacking in details.

If you don't know, then it's not my problem you cannot see just how ******* inappropriate this is.

 

[SkepticThinker]

If you don't know, then it's not my problem you cannot see just how ******* inappropriate this is.

It is your problem that you can't explain just how ***** inappropriate you think "this" is. It's not my problem that you can't explain your position or respond to my questions. Both of those are you problems.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I disagree. Men were men and women were women. No one was confused. We knew some men were more efeminate and some women were more masculine. No one really cared but no one was "perplexed" about the person's gender. This new ideology is pure nonsense.

Agreed. It's what one gets when the foxes run the henhouse and people think it's normal.

 

[metis]

I think it should be a decision between an individual and their medical professional.

Amen.

 

[metis]

Men were men and women were women. No one was confused.

Not true as some were shocked when some "came out of the closet".

The reality that some seemingly can't get through their head is that the main driving force of sexual attraction are the hormone levels, not the "equipment" between the legs.

 

[Ignatius A]

Not true as some were shocked when some "came out of the closet".

The reality that some seemingly can't get through their head is that the main driving force of sexual attraction are the hormone levels, not the "equipment" between the legs.

No one is talking about sexual attraction but I guess when someone feels compelled to say something, then anything will do.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I disagree. Men were men and women were women. No one was confused. We knew some men were more efeminate and some women were more masculine. No one really cared but no one was "perplexed" about the person's gender. This new ideology is pure nonsense.

It seems you realize that gender isn't binary, in your recognition that "some men were more efeminate [sic]and some women were more masculine." In other words, gender expression falls along a spectrum.

And yet you claim gender is binary. How do you reconcile that?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I disagree. Men were men and women were women. No one was confused. We knew some men were more efeminate and some women were more masculine. No one really cared but no one was "perplexed" about the person's gender. This new ideology is pure nonsense.

People were confused. Worse, they were cruel. Effeminate men were "sissies" and "pansies" and other terms I won't express here. Women were "tomboys" and "butch," which showed the preference for masculinity over femininity, meant to express the superiority of being masculine over feminine, still seen today in hiw it is still more acceptable for females to wear traditionally male clothing while it not being the case for males.

The "new ideology" of having open gender rules is a logical extension of a free secular society.

 

[icehorse]

People were confused. Worse, they were cruel. Effeminate men were "sissies" and "pansies" and other terms I won't express here. Women were "tomboys" and "butch," which showed the preference for masculinity over femininity, meant to express the superiority of being masculine over feminine, still seen today in hiw it is still more acceptable for females to wear traditionally male clothing while it not being the case for males.

The "new ideology" of having open gender rules is a logical extension of a free secular society.

Can you define "gender"? This thread claims that the definitions are shaky at best:

How the Law (doesn't really), define "gender identity"

 

[Ignatius A]

People were confused. Worse, they were cruel. Effeminate men were "sissies" and "pansies" and other terms I won't express here. Women were "tomboys" and "butch," which showed the preference for masculinity over femininity, meant to express the superiority of being masculine over feminine, still seen today in hiw it is still more acceptable for females to wear traditionally male clothing while it not being the case for males.

The "new ideology" of having open gender rules is a logical extension of a free secular society.

Sounds like a lot of noise.

And you think this "new ideology" makes things better. It has resulted in more confusion. It has resulted in people trying to demand what words other people must use. When someone's argument is to screech when they dont get their way I don't find it compelling and it makes me want to actively resist.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Can you define "gender"? This thread claims that the definitions are shaky at best:

How the Law (doesn't really), define "gender identity"

Already did. #193

 

[metis]

No one is talking about sexual attraction but I guess when someone feels compelled to say something, then anything will do.

Actually, it has a lot to do with sexual attraction, but if one doesn't study, they wouldn't know.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Sounds like a lot of noise.

How so? Like, what in particular seems noisy?

And you think this "new ideology" makes things better. It has resulted in more confusion. It has resulted in people trying to demand what words other people must use. When someone's argument is to screech when they dont get their way I don't find it compelling and it makes me want to actively resist.

I think it will. I think the confusion is an excuse for people to ignore civility in favor of their own individual ideology and are afraid of getting called out for it.

For instance, you appear concerned about people getting angry about using the wrong pronoun. Okay, deal with that. Either accept that civility in a free secular society means putting aside ideologies to accommodate other people's rights, or live with the consequences of your free speech.
I tend to be very open and progressive, but I still make mistakes and get called out for it. Oh well, such is being a social creature. I've been yelled at for not using "Mr" when addressing a teacher, and have been told to specifically refer to someone as "Dr." Similarly, I've used wrong pronouns and have gotten called out. I acknowledged my mistake and moved on.

 

[Ignatius A]

Actually, it has a lot to do with sexual attraction, but if one doesn't study, they wouldn't know.

No it doesn't. Apparently being smug makes you right.

 

[Ignatius A]

How so? Like, what in particular seems noisy?



I think it will. I think the confusion is an excuse for people to ignore civility in favor of their own individual ideology and are afraid of getting called out for it.

For instance, you appear concerned about people getting angry about using the wrong pronoun. Okay, deal with that. Either accept that civility in a free secular society means putting aside ideologies to accommodate other people's rights, or live with the consequences of your free speech.
I tend to be very open and progressive, but I still make mistakes and get called out for it. Oh well, such is being a social creature. I've been yelled at for not using "Mr" when addressing a teacher, and have been told to specifically refer to someone as "Dr." Similarly, I've used wrong pronouns and have gotten called out. I acknowledged my mistake and moved on.

Funny how I have to "deal with peop

How so? Like, what in particular seems noisy?



I think it will. I think the confusion is an excuse for people to ignore civility in favor of their own individual ideology and are afraid of getting called out for it.

For instance, you appear concerned about people getting angry about using the wrong pronoun. Okay, deal with that. Either accept that civility in a free secular society means putting aside ideologies to accommodate other people's rights, or live with the consequences of your free speech.
I tend to be very open and progressive, but I still make mistakes and get called out for it. Oh well, such is being a social creature. I've been yelled at for not using "Mr" when addressing a teacher, and have been told to specifically refer to someone as "Dr." Similarly, I've used wrong pronouns and have gotten called out. I acknowledged my mistake and moved on.

In not concerned about people being angry, I know people will be angry when I dont do whatever they think they can command me to do. If a lady teacher demands I call her "Mr" no go. I might call a doctor "Dr" since they earned that title. No trans person has earned my compliance or is entitled to it.

I think George Carlin said it well, "Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners".

 

[SkepticThinker]

Funny how I have to "deal with peop

In not concerned about people being angry, I know people will be angry when I dont do whatever they think they can command me to do. If a lady teacher demands I call her "Mr" no go. I might call a doctor "Dr" since they earned that title. No trans person has earned my compliance or is entitled to it.

Two problems I see with this.

1. How do you know a person isn't who they're claiming to be? For example, how do you know that the teacher who wants you to refer to them as "Mr." isn't actually a Mr.? Do you inspect their genitals or something, or do you just take their word for it, like you do with every other human on the planet that you've ever met?

2. What does it take for a trans person to earn enough respect from you, so that you will refer to them as they would like to be referred to? Do you withhold this courtesy from other people in society, and if so, whom and why? For instance, if you meet a male named "Stacy" do you tell them they have a female name and refuse to call them Stacy? Just curious how far you want to go with this.

I think George Carlin said it well, "Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners".

I don't think we're talking about political correctness here.

 

[icehorse]

Already did. #193

On post #193 you said:

Gender is social expression that, while often linked to sex, it doesn't have to be since often the expression is irrelevant to biological features of sex and can be relative to time and culture.

If you dissect this definition it amounts to nothing tangible. This is very much in keeping with the definitions you see in a lot of laws, so you are in good company. But none of these definitions hold any water or real meaning.

 

[metis]

Apparently being smug makes you right.

I prefer to discuss things with those who study and are less into themselves.

 

[Ignatius A]

I prefer to discuss things with those who study and are less into themselves.

Once you can't handle it. Got it. Take care

Two problems I see with this.

1. How do you know a person isn't who they're claiming to be? For example, how do you know that the teacher who wants you to refer to them as "Mr." isn't actually a Mr.? Do you inspect their genitals or something, or do you just take their word for it, like you do with every other human on the planet that you've ever met?

2. What does it take for a trans person to earn enough respect from you, so that you will refer to them as they would like to be referred to? Do you withhold this courtesy from other people in society, and if so, whom and why? For instance, if you meet a male named "Stacy" do you tell them they have a female name and refuse to call them Stacy? Just curious how far you want to go with this.

I don't think we're talking about political correctness here.

You don't need to see genitals to make such a determination. The genitals thing is a distraction from the issue and utter nonsense.

It has nothing to do with someone being trans. So I say call me Lord and Master you will of course comply, correct? Please don't try the that's not a pronoun foolishness. If I have a make friend named Stacy I call him Stacy but if thought the named Stacy made him a woman that would be different and that's exactly the problem with this buffoonery. People really seem think because they believe they are a different gender then they arenin factna different gender. Not how it works.

Your thinking can't be that concrete can it? YOU talked about "civility" but the point of Carlins quite escapes you. Really?