Gender reassignment/affirming surgery

[SkepticThinker]

All that means is that YOU are not paying attention. The fact that you've chosen to put blinders on is not any sort of argument the rest of us have to accept.

And yet, still no confirmation of your claims.

 

[icehorse]

And yet, still no confirmation of your claims.

How many times do I have to provide you with links? I've already done it more than once. So it would appear that instead of listening to women who have been assaulted by bad men who have "self-id"-ed as women or who just put on a dress, you'd prefer to remain unaware. Do I have that correct?

 

[SkepticThinker]

How many times do I have to provide you with links? I've already done it more than once. So it would appear that instead of listening to women who have been assaulted by bad men who have "self-id"-ed as women or who just put on a dress, you'd prefer to remain unaware. Do I have that correct?

No, you haven't.
You do not have it correct.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

If it's complicated we've complicated it. We've turned gender into a Rube Goldberg.

Gender, being a social construct, has always been as complex as any other human social element.

 

[icehorse]

Gender, being a social construct, has always been as complex as any other human social element.

Given what you said about gender, where do you stand on the ideas of gender reassignment surgery or gender affirming care?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Given what you said about gender, where do you stand on the ideas of gender reassignment surgery or gender affirming care?

I support them, given adequate medical care.

Aside from that, I am for people expressing themselves however they wish and other people not being jerks about it.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It still baffles me that you seem to think filming a person in a change room and then publishing it all over the internet is perfectly fine.

While I agree its inappropriate to take photos in a private area without consent, it is far more inappropriate for a male to be in a woman's private area.

 

[icehorse]

I support them, given adequate medical care.

Aside from that, I am for people expressing themselves however they wish and other people not being jerks about it.

I'm still skeptical about why fluid social constructs (i.e. gender), would call for a lifetime of medicalization? In other words, I think the word "gender" is inappropriate.

If an adult wants to look like a member of the opposite sex, so be it. But that seems independent of gender as a social construct, no?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I'm still skeptical about why fluid social constructs (i.e. gender), would call for a lifetime of medicalization? In other words, I think the word "gender" is inappropriate.

If an adult wants to look like a member of the opposite sex, so be it. But that seems independent of gender as a social construct, no?

I think in some cases yes. But there are some folks who are happy with a temporary tattoo while others want it deeper and more permanent as simply social expression.

Then there are those whose sex and gender differences cause dysphoria and medical intervention is a matter of physical and mental health.

 

[SkepticThinker]

While I agree its inappropriate to take photos in a private area without consent*, it is far more inappropriate for a male to be in a woman's private area.

*And post them all over the internet. Where they will remain. Forever.


Versus, someone just being in a change room minding their own business and not actually bothering anyone.

 

[icehorse]

I think in some cases yes. But there are some folks who are happy with a temporary tattoo while others want it deeper and more permanent as simply social expression.

Then there are those whose sex and gender differences cause dysphoria and medical intervention is a matter of physical and mental health.

So how would you define the word "gender"? It seems that you're somehow linking it to sex? (And BTW, I think that IN GENERAL there is a lot of misuse and even weaponization of the word "gender". I'm not trying to play gotcha with you specifically, I appreciate your willingness to explore this.)

As for medical interventions, what's being revealed is that there is no good evidence that these medical interventions improve mental health, and of course they hurt physical health. Using hormones and performing surgery on healthy tissue must by definition harm physical health. (The recently published "Cass Report" does a thorough job of backing up my claims that there is no good evidence that these interventions improve mental health.)

 

[Twilight Hue]

I think in some cases yes. But there are some folks who are happy with a temporary tattoo while others want it deeper and more permanent as simply social expression.

Then there are those whose sex and gender differences cause dysphoria and medical intervention is a matter of physical and mental health.

It's not like he was shaking his weeny around. The photo at least was 'family friendly'. PG rated.

Worst part was an upset minor present with nothing but a towel to cover her up.

Unless there were more that I don't know about.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

So how would you define the word "gender"? It seems that you're somehow linking it to sex?

Gender is social expression that, while often linked to sex, it doesn't have to be since often the expression is irrelevant to biological features of sex and can be relative to time and culture.

As for medical interventions, what's being revealed is that there is no good evidence that these medical interventions improve mental health, and of course they hurt physical health. Using hormones and performing surgery on healthy tissue must by definition harm physical health. (The recently published "Cass Report" does a thorough job of backing up my claims that there is no good evidence that these interventions improve mental health.)

Yet, doesn't the Cass Report also recommend that interventions still occur, but that they include more of a holistic approach?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

It's not like he was shaking his weeny around. The photo at least was 'family friendly'. PG rated.

Worst part was an upset minor present with nothing but a towel to cover her up.

Unless there were more that I don't know about.

Did you quote the wrong post?

 

[icehorse]

Gender is social expression that, while often linked to sex, it doesn't have to be since often the expression is irrelevant to biological features of sex and can be relative to time and culture.

So do you think it's just physical appearance, or just behaviors, or both?

Yet, doesn't the Cass Report also recommend that interventions still occur, but that they include more of a holistic approach?

My understanding is that we ought to take mental dysphoria seriously and treat it with talk therapy. And that we should not proceed with medicalization until it's proven safe and effective.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

So do you think it's just physical appearance, or just behaviors, or both?

Both.

My understanding is that we ought to take mental dysphoria seriously and treat it with talk therapy. And that we should not proceed with medicalization until it's proven safe and effective.

I think it should be a decision between an individual and their medical professional.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Did you quote the wrong post?

Looks like I might of.

Now I can't find who the response was for.


Argggggg!

Edit....

I think it was for @SkepticThinker post #190...

 

[icehorse]

I think it should be a decision between an individual and their medical professional.

Of course that's good, standard advice. But in this case, it looks like the medical community put its trust in an advocacy group that's been pushing bad science, resulting in the unnecessary medicalization and sometimes maiming, and often sterilization of confused kids.

So cases like this what should we do? I don't think we should stay quiet. I think we need to get the word out as quickly as possible so that not one more kid gets their life ruined.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Looks like I might of.

Now I can't find who the response was for.


Argggggg!

Edit....

I think it was for @SkepticThinker post #190...

Oh, that's me!

 

[SkepticThinker]

It's not like he was shaking his weeny around. The photo at least was 'family friendly'. PG rated.

Cool. So what was the big problem again? Why videotape someone who was minding their own business and not engaging with anyone else, not naked and not "shaking his weeny around?" In other words, someone who was just doing what people do in change rooms?

Worst part was an upset minor present with nothing but a towel to cover her up.

So not much at all then. Was the person being videotaped even looking at this minor at all, or just minding their own business?

Unless there were more that I don't know about.

The story is kinda lacking in details.