Genesis 1-11

[Deut 13:1]

What is the Christian perspective on these chapters?

 

[Aqualung]

I don't know. That covers a lot of stuff. My take (generally, until I know if you want something a bit more specific) is that it is a simplification of the story of the first humans (who actually were adam and eve, and there actually was a noah, etc). It has been simplified to take out unnecessary stuff, and to make it easier to comprehend and remember.

 

[Deut 13:1]

I don't know. That covers a lot of stuff. My take (generally, until I know if you want something a bit more specific) is that it is a simplification of the story of the first humans (who actually were adam and eve, and there actually was a noah, etc). It has been simplified to take out unnecessary stuff, and to make it easier to comprehend and remember.

Well, mostly I'm curious what Christians in general think about these passages. These are the most heavily debated areas of the Torah IMO from a religion-to-religion perspective.

What's the overall theme in your opinion that HaShem is trying to convey?

 

[Aqualung]

Well, mostly I'm curious what Christians in general think about these passages. These are the most heavily debated areas of the Torah IMO from a religion-to-religion perspective.

What's the overall theme in your opinion that HaShem is trying to convey?

Well, I think it's sin leads to destruction (eating the fruit, the flood, sodom and gomorrah).

 

[Deut 13:1]

Well, I think it's sin leads to destruction (eating the fruit, the flood, sodom and gomorrah).

Re-read the title of the thread.

 

[Aqualung]

Re-read the title of the thread.

I don't get it.

 

[Deut 13:1]

I don't get it.

Genesis Chapter 1 to Chapter 11. What chapter is sodom and gomorrah?

 

[Aqualung]

Genesis Chapter 1 to Chapter 11. What chapter is sodom and gomorrah?

Oops. 19-ish. :biglaugh: I just tried to remember what was between those chapters. I could have swore that sodom and gomorrah was before the flood, but I guess I'm wrong. But, anyway, my thing still stands.

 

[Deut 13:1]

Oops. 19-ish. :biglaugh: I just tried to remember what was between those chapters. I could have swore that sodom and gomorrah was before the flood, but I guess I'm wrong. But, anyway, my thing still stands.

Was Avraham before Noah?

 

[Aqualung]

Was Avraham before Noah?

No. But I forgot about Abraham's and Lot's ties.

 

[Scuba Pete]

I have said it before, and will ascertain my contention once more. The OT is written in blog form. The entire point being that God is in control. Man is sincerely trying to figure this God guy out, and sometimes they sorta get it.

 

[Deut 13:1]

Aqualung: Can you expand on how sin leads to destruction? Define Sin if you would.

Netdoc: Isn't it hypocritical to maintain the position that people sometimes understand G-d while this would require you to fully understand G-d? If not, expand on your thoughts, I'm mostly interested on how Christians view these passages.

Again, I'm not going to say your interpretation is right or wong, just curious on your thoughts.

 

[dawny0826]

Obedience. I think those verses are God's first lessons to us pertaining to obedience.

 

[Aqualung]

Aqualung: Can you expand on how sin leads to destruction? Define Sin if you would.

Sin is transgression of the law. Now, as a christian, I believe that at this time they were still practicing the law that Christ restored with his coming. They were under the higher law, not the lower mosaic law (since moses hasn't come yet). This sin leads to destruction because God is a just god. I would say, however, that it just leads to temporal destruction. You can redeem yourself from the destruction by repenting and turning back to God's law. Throughout all of this you see that sin leads (at least) to temporal destruction. Adam and Eve transgressed the law (don't eat) and brought death to both themselves and their posterity. Now, this destruction is only finite, and it can definitely lead to good. Noah's people were sinning, and God, being just like he is, had to punish them at some point. So he flooded the earth. God is just, so he won't let sin go unpunished. It's just a matter of when the punishment will come.

Again, I'm not going to say your interpretation is right or wong, just curious on your thoughts.

Well, I hope you will fill me in on your PoV as well. I've never had many discusssions with an orthodox jew. In fact, I don't know any jews outside of the forum, so I know little about judaism. I would definitely like to hear your thoughts as well.

 

[Deut 13:1]

Sin is transgression of the law. Now, as a christian, I believe that at this time they were still practicing the law that Christ restored with his coming. They were under the higher law, not the lower mosaic law (since moses hasn't come yet).

Just so we can be clear, can you state the law(s) that they were under? For example, the 613, the 7 noahide, the one commandment, ect... What, in your opinion are these?

Also, does sin only refer to religious laws or secular laws as well?

This sin leads to destruction because God is a just god. I would say, however, that it just leads to temporal destruction. You can redeem yourself from the destruction by repenting and turning back to God's law.

I'll respond when I understand which laws they were under.

Throughout all of this you see that sin leads (at least) to temporal destruction. Adam and Eve transgressed the law (don't eat) and brought death to both themselves and their posterity.

Well, the Jewish perspective is slightly different, yes, she ate from the tree which was a sin, but she had a greater sin IMO. Although when it comes to Adam's sin, my thoughts dwell outside of mainstream Traditional Judaism.

Now, this destruction is only finite, and it can definitely lead to good. Noah's people were sinning, and God, being just like he is, had to punish them at some point. So he flooded the earth. God is just, so he won't let sin go unpunished. It's just a matter of when the punishment will come.

Where do you draw that G-d is just? Not saying I disagree, just curious on what grounds you base this on, also, can you define just? Do you mean just as in Truth?

Well, I hope you will fill me in on your PoV as well. I've never had many discusssions with an orthodox jew. In fact, I don't know any jews outside of the forum, so I know little about judaism. I would definitely like to hear your thoughts as well.

Possibly, althought there are some things I'm not comfortable sharing as I don't believe I have a firm enough understanding.

 

[Deut 13:1]

Obedience. I think those verses are God's first lessons to us pertaining to obedience.

Obedience to....

 

[Aqualung]

Just so we can be clear, can you state the law(s) that they were under? For example, the 613, the 7 noahide, the one commandment, ect... What, in your opinion are these?

Well, I'm not sure. I think they were under the law that has always governed christ's church when the knowledge of the fullness of the gospel was on the earth. This is also the law the LDS are under, since we claim the fullness of the gospel, and to be christ's church. I'll admit, though, the OT isn't my strongest point (though I'm working to strengthen it), so I'm not sure which law they were under. Noah wasn't under the 7 noahide until after the flood, though, I think.

Also, does sin only refer to religious laws or secular laws as well?

Well, I think that part of the law is to be obedient to governemts, so it would be both.

I'll respond when I understand which laws they were under.

I hope I explained them well enough. Like I say, not my strong point.

Well, the Jewish perspective is slightly different, yes, she ate from the tree which was a sin, but she had a greater sin IMO. Although when it comes to Adam's sin, my thoughts dwell outside of mainstream Traditional Judaism.

Interesting. Is that something you feel comfortable discussing? I think you should start a thread in the judaism forum where I can just ask you stuff.

Where do you draw that G-d is just? Not saying I disagree, just curious on what grounds you base this on, also, can you define just? Do you mean just as in Truth?

Oh, stuff like Nehemia 9:33 "thou art just in all that is brought upon us" and stuff like that.

Possibly, althought there are some things I'm not comfortable sharing as I don't believe I have a firm enough understanding.

Well, that's fine. I think I should have been as prudent when I decided to discuss the OT with a jew, but I love a challenge, and you certainly make me think.

 

[Deut 13:1]

Well, I'm not sure. I think they were under the law that has always governed christ's church when the knowledge of the fullness of the gospel was on the earth. This is also the law the LDS are under, since we claim the fullness of the gospel, and to be christ's church. I'll admit, though, the OT isn't my strongest point (though I'm working to strengthen it), so I'm not sure which law they were under. Noah wasn't under the 7 noahide until after the flood, though, I think.

Well, might I suggest making a thread for you and your LDS followers to discuss and come to an agreement before we take this conversation any further? There is no point in saying, "They were under the law that always goverended christs churche" when no one but you knows what those law(s) are/were.

Oh, stuff like Nehemia 9:33 "thou art just in all that is brought upon us" and stuff like that.

A slightly more accurate translation of that: וְאַתָּה צַדִּיק, עַל כָּל-הַבָּא עָלֵינוּ: כִּי-אֱמֶת עָשִׂיתָ, וַאֲנַחְנוּ הִרְשָׁעְנוּ
And You (HaShem)are just with everything that has come upon to us//upon us (either works), for You (HaShem) have dealt honestly//truthly and we have dealt wickedly/badly.
Remember, this thread is about Genesis 1-11 though, let's try and stick with those, if possible.


Let me know when you come to a consensous on which laws they were under. Then we can get into the more interesting aspect of this discussion.

 

[dawny0826]

Obedience to....

...God.

 

[Deut 13:1]

...God.

Great, so allow me edit that in.

Obedience. I think those verses are God's first lessons to us pertaining to obedience to G-d.

And what are those first lessons??