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Genesis 2

captainbryce

Active Member
I think I and others have done so but you will not agree.
Of course I will not agree. Done so WHERE? Done so HOW? Nobody has yet provided an answer to the previous contradictions I've laid out.

You are very committed to a certain belief and interpret the Bible to support that belief. That is what eisegesis is.
I know what eisegesis means, but you're still missing my point. I can (and have) reconcile my interpretation with scripture. Nobody else here has been able to do that! The alternate interpretations presented so far REQUIRE one to ignore certain passages, to maintain the integrity (or at least one interpretation) of another. That is inconsistent! If you cannot interpret the bible consistently, then your interpretation is the one that resorts to eisegesis, not mine!
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Hi Outhouse, That is your "Opinion"


Its also all of science OPINION

Its also every credible historian's OPINION

Its also every credible biblical scholar"s OPINION


Find someone who is not apologetically biased with a closed mind that states this.
 

nazz

Doubting Thomas
Of course I will not agree. Done so WHERE? Done so HOW? Nobody has yet provided an answer to the previous contradictions I've laid out.

What "contradictions"? You mean the fact that the bible contradicts scientific evidence? Not much can be done about that.

I know what eisegesis means, but you're still missing my point. I can (and have) reconcile my interpretation with scripture.

I'm not disputing that. With enough hermeneutic gymnastics anyone can do this. Anyone can make the bible say anything they want it to.

Nobody else here has been able to do that!

Sure we have.

The alternate interpretations presented so far REQUIRE one to ignore certain passages, to maintain the integrity (or at least one interpretation) of another.

Maybe because we are not laboring under the illusion the bible contains no contradictions? But I've not seen what you are saying at least in what I have presented. What is it that you think I'm ignoring?
 

captainbryce

Active Member
This implies it, quie clear.

“Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath. . . . in it thou shalt not work... For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth… and rested the seventh day” (Exodus 20:9-11).

Does the OT imply you work for a thousand years without rest? :tsk:
For as often as people on here are accusing me of taking things out of context, it amazes me at how much people misapply the intent of scripture to suit a belief that is inherently illogical. First of all notice that the "days" are not defined in terms of hours in that verse. The reason it isn't defined isn't because we should assume they are 24 hour periods, it's because the length of time is irrelevant.

Some people say that a comparison of the two weeks means that they both represent seven 24-hour days. It seems like a good argument until one looks at other "Sabbaths". However, God also declared a Sabbath for the land, which consists of six years of cultivation followed by a seventh year of rest:

"Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, 'When you come into the land which I shall give you, then the land shall have a sabbath to the LORD. Six years you shall sow your field, and six years you shall prune your vineyard and gather in its crop, but during the seventh year the land shall have a sabbath rest, a sabbath to the LORD; you shall not sow your field nor prune your vineyard.'" (Leviticus 25:2-4)

The point of Exodus 20:9-11, is to establish a "Sabbath" of six work periods with one rest period. In the case of humans working for six days and resting for one day, YES that obviously refers to 24 hour periods because the human body requires rest at those particular intervals. God does NOT require rest in the way that human beings do. He could have taken as long as he wanted to to create the universe, or he could have done it in a nanosecond. He chose to do it in 6 "periods" of time and then complete his work in the 7 "period". But the scripture does not define the length of these days, and we cannot assume that just because OUR sabbath requires 24 hour days, that God's work must also correspond to those exact lengths of time. If fact, we KNOW that they didn't because astronomy proves that they didn't. And since the bible says that what we see in the skies represents God's truth, then the creation days were longer than 24 hours. Again, if you're not taking the bible consistently, it is of no value at all.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Lets put this nonsense to bed once and for all.

Young Earth creationism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The scientific consensus, supported by a 2006 statement by 68 national and international science academies, is that it is evidence-based fact derived from observations and experiments in multiple scientific disciplines that the universe has existed for around 13.8 billion years and that the Earth was formed about 4.5 billion years ago, with life first appearing at least 2.5 billion years ago


What part of FACT dont you understand.

Genesis creation narrative - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Genesis creation narrative is the creation myth of both Judaism and Christianity.


What part of MYTHOLOGY dont you understand!
 

captainbryce

Active Member
What "contradictions"? You mean the fact that the bible contradicts scientific evidence? Not much can be done about that.
I suggest you refer back to my previous responses on this thread. The bible DOESN'T contradict scientific evidence. Scientific evidence actually confirms biblical truths about the universe. In order to come up with an interpretation that creates a contradiction between the bible and science, you must first create contradictions between the bible and itself. See the passages in Psalms that I've already referenced. If you see contradictions in the bible, it's because your interpretation of the scriptures are inconsistent. If your interpretation is inconsistent, then the bible is of no value at all. :)

I'm not disputing that. With enough hermeneutic gymnastics anyone can do this. Anyone can make the bible say anything they want it to.
Apparently they can't. That's exactly what I've been asking you (and others) to do in order to justify an interpretation that contradicts mine. Yet everyone else seems either unwilling or unable to do this. If it's so easy to make it say what you want (while being consistent and not having it contradict itself), then what's stopping you from doing so? This should be an open and shut case for you and anyone else who thinks that yom means 24 hours in each of the cases mentioned. Again, come up with a 24 hour interpretation that doesn't contradict the bible in some other way and you will have made your point. If you can't do this, then your interpretation is faulty, not the bible! You want to call reconciling scriptures "hermeneutic gymnastics", but the reason you call it that is because you don't like that I can do it in a way that corresponds to known truths, while nobody else can do it in a way that disregards known truths.

Sure we have.
So you say, and yet the contradictions still remain. If the bible contradicts itself, then it is WRONG. And if you believe that the bible is wrong, you cannot accuse me of engaging in "hermeneutic gymnastics" simply because I interpret it in a way that contradicts your preconception of it. If you believe that the bible is right, then you must be able to provide an interpretation of it that does require it to contradict itself. You cannot have it both ways!

Maybe because we are not laboring under the illusion the bible contains no contradictions? But I've not seen what you are saying at least in what I have presented. What is it that you think I'm ignoring?
1) You (and others) are ignoring the fact that yom is used in the bible to refer to periods of time OTHER than 24 hour periods. If you ignore that, then the entire basis for your argument is faulty.

2) A "god created the sun on the fourth day" interpretation contradicts Genesis 1:1. A 24 hour interpretation of the word day in Genesis 2:17 contradicts Genesis 5:5. A 24 hour interpretation of the word day in Genesis 1:19 contradicts Psalms 19:1-4.

Again, I have YET to find anyone who can point out a contradiction in my interpretation of the creation days in Genesis 1:1.

Genesis 1 (Captainbryce Translation)

1 In the beginning God created Jesus Christ as a spiritual being [extrapolated from John 1:3 and Colossians 1:15], through which he created the entire universe and everything in it (to include the angels in heaven, the Earth, the Sun, the Moon, the Stars, the Planets, and all matter, energy, space and time). 2 The earth was formless and empty, and it was dark on the surface of the planet because thick clouds were covering the entire planet and blocked out the sunlight. [extrapolated from Job 38:4-9] The Spirit of God was hovering over the surface.

3 Then God said, “Let there be light,” and the atmosphere was transformed and made translucent, so that the light from the sun could penetrate the clouds. 4 And God saw that the light was good. And God spun the earth on it's axis, so that once every rotation, one side of the planet could be light, while the other side is dark. [extrapolated from Job 38:12-13] 5 God referred to the period of light hours as “daytime”, and referred to the period of the hours of darkness as “nighttime.”

And these events marked the end of the first age of creation, and the beginning of the second.

6 Then God said, “Let there be a space between the waters, to separate the waters of the heavens from the waters of the earth.” 7 And that is what happened. God made this space to separate the waters on the surface from the water in the upper atmosphere, thereby establishing the earth's natural water cycle. 8 God called the space “sky.”

And these events marked the end of the second age of creation, and the beginning of the third.

9 Then God said, “Let the waters on the surface flow together into one place, so dry ground may appear.” And then plate tectonics caused the continental land masses to form. [extrapolated from Psalm 104:8-9] 10 God called the dry ground “land” and the waters “seas” and oceans. And God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said, “Let the land sprout with vegetation—every sort of seed-bearing plant, and trees that grow seed-bearing fruit. These seeds will then produce the kinds of plants and trees from which they came.” And that is what happened. 12 Over time land produced vegetation—all sorts of seed-bearing plants, and trees with seed-bearing fruit. Their seeds produced plants and trees of the same kind. [extrapolated from Psalm 104:14-15] And God saw that it was good.

13 And these events marked the end of the third age of creation, and the beginning of the fourth.

14 Then God said, “Let lights appear in the sky to separate the day from the night. Let them be signs to mark the seasons, days, and years. 15 Let these lights in the sky shine down on the earth.” And the atmosphere again was transformed, this time from translucent to transparent, and the heavenly bodies could now be seen for the first time. 16 God made the sun to light the day, and the moon to light the night. He also made the stars which you can now see at night too. [extrapolated from Psalm 104:19] 17 God set ALL these lights in the sky to light the earth, in different ways that help us 18 to govern the day and night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.

19 And these events marked the end of the fourth age of creation, and the beginning of the fifth.

20 Then God said, “Let the waters swarm with fish and other life. Let the skies be filled with flying animals of every kind.” 21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that scurries and swarms in the water, and every sort of flying animal—each producing offspring of the same kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 Then God blessed them, and allowed them to reproduce in great numbers. The fish and sea creatures filled the seas, and flying animals filled the skies on the earth.”

23 And these events marked the end of the fifth age of creation, and the beginning of the sixth.

24 Then God said, “Let the earth produce every sort of animal, each producing offspring of the same kind—livestock, small animals that scurry along the ground, and wild animals.” And that is what happened. 25 God made all sorts of wild animals, livestock, and small animals, each able to produce offspring of the same kind. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God (or one of the angels that he previously created) said, “Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us. They will reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the livestock, all the wild animals on the earth, and the small animals that scurry along the ground.”

27 So God created human beings in his own image. First he created Adam, who was male, but then after so much time by himself Adam became lonely so God gave him a female partner, named Eve. But this will be discussed in more detail later in Genesis 2.

28 Then God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth and govern it. Reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, and all the animals that scurry along the ground.” And human beings eventually populated the entire world and became the dominant species on the planet.

29 Then God said, “Look! I have given you every seed-bearing plant throughout the earth and all the fruit trees for your food. 30 And I have given every green plant as food for all the animals” And that is what happened.

31 Then God looked over all he had made, and he saw that it was very good!

And these events marked the end of the sixth age, where God completed creation, and the beginning of the seventh age where God is no longer actively creating.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
The bible DOESN'T contradict scientific evidence.

Yes it factually does. :facepalm:


Your ignoring the fact that life has been here over 2.5 billion years.

Where does the bible say that?

Where does the bible say Humans evolved?

Science states the earth is over 4.5 Billion years old, where does the bible state that?
 

captainbryce

Active Member
Stop the nonsense.

Your going against FACTS. with NOTHING to substantiate your position.
Saying something over and over again doesn't make it true. What "facts" am I supposedly going against exactly? I'm still waiting for someone to actually come up with one of these alleged facts. So far, all I've got is people making the claim over and over again. :sleep:
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Apparently they can't. That's exactly what I've been asking you (and others) to do in order to justify an interpretation that contradicts mine.


Your ignoring every credible fact posted.


You ignore that the Exodus according to biblical historians did not happen as written.

You ignore the FACT Israelites factually evolved from Canaanites and that there was no conquest! [Israeli Finklestein]
 

captainbryce

Active Member
Yes it factually does. :facepalm:


Your ignoring the fact that life has been here over 2.5 billion years.
I'm NOT ignoring that. You're making a straw man argument.

Science states the earth is over 4.5 Billion years old, where does the bible state that?
It doesn't HAVE TO say it. It only has to CONTRADICT IT in order to be wrong. Show me where the bible contradicts that. And if your argument is that it says "six days" and that by extension days MUST refer to 24 hours, then you are doing the same thing that the Young Earth Creationists are doing - taking the bible inconsistently with itself, and thereby contradicting your own argument against it! Only by taking the bible inconsistently and creating contradictions within itself can you say that it is contradictory to known science.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
I'm NOT ignoring that. You're making a straw man argument.

It doesn't HAVE TO say it. It only has to CONTRADICT IT in order to be wrong. Show me where the bible contradicts that. And if your argument is that it says "six days" and that by extension days MUST refer to 24 hours, then you are doing the same thing that the Young Earth Creationists are doing - taking the bible inconsistently with itself, and thereby contradicting your own argument against it! Only by taking the bible inconsistently and creating contradictions within itself can you say that it is contradictory to known science.


STOP IT

The bible says it took 6 days. That what the authors said and that is what they ment.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
what about this.

Your ignoring every credible fact posted.


You ignore that the Exodus according to biblical historians did not happen as written.

You ignore the FACT Israelites factually evolved from Canaanites and that there was no conquest! [Israeli Finklestein]
 

captainbryce

Active Member
STOP IT

The bible says it took 6 days. That what the authors said and that is what they ment.
Of course it did. That isn't in question (straw man argument). The question is WHAT DO DAYS MEAN? And I've already proven that they don't necessarily mean 24 hours, and that in the context of creation, it is impossible for them to mean that. Your argument absolutely requires these days to be 24 hours, but it is literally impossible for you to prove that this length of time is what was intended by the author. That's what it ultimately comes down to!
 

captainbryce

Active Member
what about this.

Your ignoring every credible fact posted.
So you say! I've just given you facts about the bible that YOU have chosen to ignore. Is this not hypocrisy at its worst?

You ignore that the Exodus according to biblical historians did not happen as written.
I thought we were discussing GENESIS here? I like it how when people can't back up their argument that Genesis is wrong, they have to turn to criticism of other books.

In any case, while there are no doubt SOME biblical historians that do not believe exodus happened "as written" (whatever that means), there are just as many who would make the opposite claim. So how does this resolve anything exactly? At the end of the day these disputes will come down to OPINION, nothing more!

Did the Exodus Really Happen? Rabbi David Wolpe on the Passover story - Beliefnet.com

If there was a global flood, what date did it happen exactly?
Whoever made the claim that there was a "global" flood? I certainly never did, and guess what, neither does the bible. The bible says that the world was flooded. Read Genesis 7 again, and tell me where you see the world "global" anywhere. Tell me where you get that the entire earth was covered in water at any one point. Because I CAN show you in the bible where it specifically says that the entire earth can NEVER be flooded. :yes:
 

nazz

Doubting Thomas
If it's so easy to make it say what you want (while being consistent and not having it contradict itself), then what's stopping you from doing so?

Because I have no desire to do so! I no longer need to try to make it all fit together in harmony!

1) You (and others) are ignoring the fact that yom is used in the bible to refer to periods of time OTHER than 24 hour periods. If you ignore that, then the entire basis for your argument is faulty.
I and others are NOT ignoring that. This is a straw man you keep bringing up. The issue is, and always has been, why we should interpret yom as meaning "age" in the verse in question! The only rerason you keep giving is to make the Scriptures consistent. That is NOT a god enough reason!

2) A "god created the sun on the fourth day" interpretation contradicts Genesis 1:1.
Um, no it doesn't. It just contradicts scientific evidence which is why you try to forcefit an interpretation in harmony with science! It doesn't wash!
 
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captainbryce

Active Member
You did not prove anything :facepalm:
Yes, I did. The day of the lord is 7 years. The day when God created heavens and the earth is at least 6 days. Adam doesn't die on day the "day" when God created the heavens and the earth. These are biblical proofs that days are not specifically 24 hours. Keep up!
 
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