Genetic Code is INFORMATION: Proof of Intelligent Design

[ArtieE]

What were your main issues? I'll give you my thoughts on those issues (if you are interested).

Thanks but no thanks. Too late. I have just read and seen too much and know too much. You read one book or see a tv show and go "wow, that's interesting I'd like to know more". Then you read the second book and go "hang on a minute, this book contradicts the first book..." The third book is even worse and after a while you just give up with the realization that nobody has a clue.

 

[George-ananda]

Thanks but no thanks. Too late. I have just read and seen too much and know too much. You read one book or see a tv show and go "wow, that's interesting I'd like to know more". Then you read the second book and go "hang on a minute, this book contradicts the first book..." The third book is even worse and after a while you just give up with the realization that nobody has a clue.

OK, I'll take your 'no thanks'. My experience with all this has been quite different from yours.

 

[ArtieE]

The evidence and teachings seem to show

In western NDEs there's usually a tunnel, Stevenson during research in India interviewed 45 people. No tunnel. Not one. What does the evidence show? Do we go through a tunnel or not?

 

[George-ananda]

In western NDEs there's usually a tunnel, Stevenson during research in India interviewed 45 people. No tunnel. Not one. What does the evidence show? Do we go through a tunnel or not?

Hear is what I found on the NDERF Website:

(1) In 45 Hindu near-death accounts, Pasrich and Stevenson found no evidence of a tunnel experience which is frequently found in western accounts of the near-death experience. However, another near-death researcher, Susan Blackmore, reported accounts of a tunnel experience in her research of 8 Hindu near-death experiencers.

My thought is that the near death experience is somewhat different (including cultural differences) and somewhat the same for everybody. People seem to return to the people and culture they were familiar with in their past life. The fact that it is not the same for everybody is pretty clear and the evidence that it is something beyond hallucination is also strong.

I think the lower/earlier astral planes are more culturally conditioned but the progressively higher realms become more universal.

 

[ArtieE]

My thought is that the near death experience is somewhat different (including cultural differences) and somewhat the same for everybody. People seem to return to the people and culture they were familiar with in their past life. The fact that it is not the same for everybody is pretty clear and the evidence that it is something beyond hallucination is also strong.

I think the lower/earlier astral planes are more culturally conditioned but the progressively higher realms become more universal.

Let's see if we can find something completely contradicting reincarnation and past lives. Here it is:

"The whole thrust of the Bible opposes reincarnation." ... "the concept that mankind’s creation in God’s image is unique from the animals and even angels stand totally opposed to the idea of reincarnation—dying and coming back as another person or in the form of an animal or insect. The claim of some that they have information of past history is nothing more than some kind of encounter with demonic powers who have been present throughout history."
https://bible.org/question/what-does-bible-say-about-reincarnation

Your turn. I bet you can find somebody writing that the Bible completely validates reincarnation and past lives?

 

[George-ananda]

Let's see if we can find something completely contradicting reincarnation and past lives. Here it is:

"The whole thrust of the Bible opposes reincarnation." ... "the concept that mankind’s creation in God’s image is unique from the animals and even angels stand totally opposed to the idea of reincarnation—dying and coming back as another person or in the form of an animal or insect. The claim of some that they have information of past history is nothing more than some kind of encounter with demonic powers who have been present throughout history."
https://bible.org/question/what-does-bible-say-about-reincarnation

Your turn. I bet you can find somebody writing that the Bible completely validates reincarnation and past lives?

I believe in reincarnation. I do not hold the Bible to be infallible and taken as a whole I don't claim the Bible supports reincarnation. Some passages seem to show that some people considered it. It was possibly like now, there were believers and nonbelievers in the concept.

 

[viole]

Hear is what I found on the NDERF Website:

(1) In 45 Hindu near-death accounts, Pasrich and Stevenson found no evidence of a tunnel experience which is frequently found in western accounts of the near-death experience. However, another near-death researcher, Susan Blackmore, reported accounts of a tunnel experience in her research of 8 Hindu near-death experiencers.

My thought is that the near death experience is somewhat different (including cultural differences) and somewhat the same for everybody. People seem to return to the people and culture they were familiar with in their past life. The fact that it is not the same for everybody is pretty clear and the evidence that it is something beyond hallucination is also strong.

I think the lower/earlier astral planes are more culturally conditioned but the progressively higher realms become more universal.

Well, the biology of brains is the same everywhere. And that could explain why lack of oxygen could cause those tunnel effects which are culture independent.

And I think it is obvious. If those tunnel experiences were real experiences of a culturally independent tunnel, than it is not clear why what follows at the end of that tunnel is culturally dependent. I mean, confusing Jesus with an elephant looking god is not exactly a marginal error due to spiritual fog or something.

Ciao

- viole

 

[George-ananda]

Well, the biology of brains is the same everywhere. And that could explain why lack of oxygen could cause those tunnel effects which are culture independent.

There are a number of reasons that the biological explanation is held to be unsatisfactory for the entire phenomena. The debate has been done multiple times on RF before.

And I think it is obvious. If those tunnel experiences were real experiences of a culturally independent tunnel, than it is not clear why what follows at the end of that tunnel is culturally dependent.

I think you misunderstood my post. I was not saying the tunnel was necessarily culturally independent.

I mean, confusing Jesus with an elephant looking god is not exactly a marginal error due to spiritual fog or something.

You misunderstood me again. I am arguing for culturally different images being part of the experience. People are guided to people they know who have formed their own cultural perspective (ancestors). The initial astral plane is vast and has real cultural areas The higher planes become increasingly less cultural and more universal. The multiple mountain paths scenario has been used to understand this. At different sides of the base of the mountain things look different. The higher you go up the mountain, the more they look the same and at the top they shake hands. The earth cultures and lower astral planes are nearer the base of the mountain.

 

[viole]

There are a number of reasons that the biological explanation is held to be unsatisfactory for the entire phenomena. The debate has been done multiple times on RF before.
I think you misunderstood my post. I was not saying the tunnel was necessarily culturally independent.

You misunderstood me again. I am arguing for culturally different images being part of the experience. People are guided to people they know who have formed their own cultural perspective (ancestors). The initial astral plane is vast and has real cultural areas The higher planes become increasingly less cultural and more universal. The multiple mountain paths scenario has been used to understand this. At different sides of the base of the mountain things look different. The higher you go up the mountain, the more they look the same and at the top they shake hands. The earth cultures and lower astral planes are nearer the base of the mountain.

Ok, but isn't it simpler to pustulate that all of this is the result of a machine running out of steam?

By the way, what is an astral plane?

Ciao

- viole

 

[George-ananda]

Ok, but isn't it simpler to pustulate that all of this is the result of a machine running out of steam?

No, it seems to be gaining steam rather than losing steam. Leaving the body behind seems to expand consciousness. And with no higher level brain function indicated on machinery. And for the materially inclined there is the challenge of knowledge of real world events from an outside the body perspective. NDEs of the blind. Other types of phenomena that consciousness is more than brain function. Etc., etc.

By the way, what is an astral plane?

Planes of nature beyond the familiar three-dimensions accessible to our physical senses and instruments (4th, 5th, etc.) and containing matter of a vibratory level orders of magnitude too subtle and outside detectible dimensions. Science says 95% of matter is not directly detectable at this time.

 

[viole]

No, it seems to be gaining steam rather than losing steam. Leaving the body behind seems to expand consciousness. And with no higher level brain function indicated on machinery. And for the materially inclined there is the challenge of knowledge of real world events from an outside the body perspective. NDEs of the blind. Other types of phenomena that consciousness is more than brain function. Etc., etc.

Do these expanded consciousnesses have binocular vision?

Planes of nature beyond the familiar three-dimensions accessible to our physical senses and instruments (4th, 5th, etc.) and containing matter of a vibratory level orders of magnitude too subtle and outside detectible dimensions. Science says 95% of matter is not directly detectable at this time.

Well, according to science, those extra dimensions do not look like planes at all. More like thin cylindrical spaghetti. So thin, to look one dimensional to us.

Now, I am not sure whether we should call them astral noodles, for sake of precision, or make a scientific case for the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Suddenly, my atheism is shaken at the roots

Ciao

- viole

 

[George-ananda]

Do these expanded consciousnesses have binocular vision?



Well, according to science, those extra dimensions do not look like planes at all. More like thin cylindrical spaghetti. So thin, to look one dimensional to us.

Now, I am not sure whether we should call them astral noodles, for sake of precision, or make a scientific case for the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Suddenly, my atheism is shaken at the roots

Ciao

- viole

Ha ha ha. Nothing there to respond to.

 

[viole]

Ha ha ha. Nothing there to respond to.

What about the binocular vision? What do they say?

Ciao

- viole

 

[George-ananda]

What about the binocular vision? What do they say?

OK, I will assume that was a serious question. Not sure where that question is coming from though.

But anyway, the astral vehicle like the physical vehicle has senses that tell it about its environment. The astral senses do not operate in the same manner as the physical senses but they are analogous and experiencers use terms like 'see' and 'hear'.

 

[ArtieE]

OK, I will assume that was a serious question. Not sure where that question is coming from though.

But anyway, the astral vehicle like the physical vehicle has senses that tell it about its environment. The astral senses do not operate in the same manner as the physical senses but they are analogous and experiencers use terms like 'see' and 'hear'.

Is there any astral scientists living on these planes doing astral science who can give us detailed information? I assume scientists and science continue on these astral planes too...

 

[George-ananda]

Is there any astral scientists living on these planes doing astral science who can give us detailed information? I assume scientists and science continue on these astral planes too...

Absolutely yes. Such things can be found in Theosophical and other eastern/Indian and occult literature. The best and most detailed book I am aware of on this particular subject is from the Theosophical Society called 'The Astral Body'. It is considered an occult classic.

 

[ArtieE]

Absolutely yes. Such things can be found in Theosophical and other eastern/Indian and occult literature. The best and most detailed book I am aware of on this particular subject is from the Theosophical Society called 'The Astral Body'. It is considered an occult classic.

I downloaded a book called "The Astral Body" by Arthur A. Powell but in the Publisher's Preface on page two it says "There is no attempt to prove or even justify any of the statements". If there's no justification for any of the statements why should I read it?

 

[George-ananda]

Wow, I am glad to hear someone listens to my suggestions once in awhile. You are better than my kid.

I downloaded a book called "The Astral Body" by Arthur A. Powell but in the Publisher's Preface on page two it says "There is no attempt to prove or even justify any of the statements". If there's no justification for any of the statements why should I read it?

Don't let that statement concern you. The book is based on the insights of many seers. It is impossible to offer PROOF that their observations are accurate. For example, if I see a ghost and report about it, I cannot claim any 'proof or justification' beyond my own testimony. However if the ghost appears to a group of intelligent people and they each describe very similar things then the value and importance of the material increases dramatically. But what proof can they ever supply?

How can they provide proof of a characteristic of the astral body to people that cannot sense the astral? That statement is akin to lawyer speak.

 

[ftacky]

Has anyone here ever seen any sort of information such as a set of instructions - form on their own? Not !

In the movie "Contact', scientists immediately knew they had contacted intelligent life because....a set of instructions were sent to them.

Why? Because a set of instructions reveals a THOUGHT- PROCESS.

How much more so when we see a set of instructions in our genetic code, should we also understand that an intelligence, and a very high intelligence at that, is behind our genetic code.

Albert Einstein: "Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced a SPIRIT is manifest in the laws of the universe - a Spirit vastly superior to that of man."

Louis Pasteur: "The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator."

Bill Gates: "DNA is like a computer program but far, far more advanced than any software ever created."

“We do not know how the transition to digitally encoded information has happened in the originally inanimate world..."
(ref: January 26, 2010. Lack of evolvability in self-sustaining autocatalytic networks constraints metabolism-first scenarios for the origin of life. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS).

Psalm 14:
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the Lord.

 

[ArtieE]

Psalm 14:
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

So if all the people who are currently Christians would be corrupt fools incapable of doing anything good if they weren't Christians that tells us a lot about Christians...