They can create scientific instruments that can "sense the astral"?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Genetic Code is INFORMATION: Proof of Intelligent Design
- Thread starter ftacky
- Start date
You are shooting yourself in the foot. Why would this very high intelligence exist in the first place? By chance or design or did it evolve?
Last edited:
Maybe someday, but the astral is not within our three-dimensional space that our senses and instruments are designed for. However, I have heard of some theorists and people working with entities on the 'other side; are trying to make the leap. I don't know the details of this but for me, and most of us, my brain only works well thinking about three-dimensions and linear time. However, I now appreciate from the evidence and more advanced sources that the universe is more complicated than I can ever get my head around.
Baby don't hurt me,
Don't hurt me no more
Man, share the stuff you are smoking
McBell
Unbound
that does not answer either of the questions...
Why does everything and everyone that exists HAVE TO:
1) Have a reason to exist?
2) Have to evolve?
There is no cosmic rule which says God has to have a reason to exist, is there? I'm not aware of any such rule or principle.
Besides, I am simply arguing that there is sufficient evidence for any open-minded person to consider God's existence and to not rule it out.
On the other hand, there is no rule or principle which says we all need to be open-minded either. Most of us aren't, lol.
Verse for the day:
Isaiah 1:18: Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow...
McBell
Unbound
Nice sermon.
Unfortuanately, it did not distract from the fact that you completely avoided answering the question.
Was this intentional or did you get so caught up in preaching your forgot what the question was?
I can sum the question up so you are not so easily confused:
Did your god come about by chance or design or did it evolve or are you going with the ever popular has always existed?
No there is no reason why God should exist in the first place... if you could provide a logical and rational explanation for that I might become a theist.
God exists but why or how, I don't know. But the question about why or how God exists is only a diversion.
I don't need to know why God exists in order to know God does indeed exist.
How do I know God exists? Because all information requires a thought process. This is the same scientific principle used by SETI in searching for alien intelligence. They know that if they detect ANY information coming form outer space, they have succeeded in detecting intelligent life because all information requires a thought process.
And there is a huge amount of information - specifically, instructions in our cells. About 100,000,000 pages worth in every cell of our body.
Has anyone seen or heard of any set of instructions generating itself or somehow coming together by itself? Not!
Verses for the day:
Exodus 3:
13 Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?”
14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am." This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”
15 God also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’
“This is my name forever,
the name you shall call me
from generation to generation.
I don't need to know why God exists in order to know God does indeed exist.
How do I know God exists? Because all information requires a thought process. This is the same scientific principle used by SETI in searching for alien intelligence. They know that if they detect ANY information coming form outer space, they have succeeded in detecting intelligent life because all information requires a thought process.
And there is a huge amount of information - specifically, instructions in our cells. About 100,000,000 pages worth in every cell of our body.
Has anyone seen or heard of any set of instructions generating itself or somehow coming together by itself? Not!
Verses for the day:
Exodus 3:
13 Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?”
14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am." This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”
15 God also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’
“This is my name forever,
the name you shall call me
from generation to generation.
No it's not. If you can't give me a good reason why he should exist I have no reason to believe he does. Imagine that you had no evidence at all for the existence of a god is there anything you can say that could convince me that instead of nothing a god would have to exist?
Skwim
Veteran Member
Then the question would be, how do you know he exists?
I'm afraid you either have a mistaken notion of what information is, or you're using the wrong term. Thunder, whether heard by anyone or anything, is information that lightening has occurred. It requires absolutely no thought process to exist. A flourishing plant is information that the plant has had adequate water whether anyone or anything is ever aware of it. No thought process needed at all.
In fact, yes. Chemical substances often instruct other chemical substances how to interact with them. Mg(NO 3 ) 2 ( s ) → Mg(NO 2 ) 2 ( s ) + O 2 ( g ) and H 2 CO 3 ( aq ) → H 2 O ( l ) + CO 2 ( g ).
Verses for the day:
Genesis 19:8
“See now, I have two daughters who have not known a man; please, let me bring them out to you, and you may do to them as you wish; only do nothing to these men, since this is the reason they have come under the shadow of my roof.”
Exodus 21:20-21
“And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property.
.
“See now, I have two daughters who have not known a man; please, let me bring them out to you, and you may do to them as you wish; only do nothing to these men, since this is the reason they have come under the shadow of my roof.”
Exodus 21:20-21
“And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property.
.
In the above post, Skwim said: In fact, yes. Chemical substances often instruct other chemical substances how to interact with them. Mg(NO 3 ) 2 ( s ) → Mg(NO 2 ) 2 ( s ) + O 2 ( g ) and H 2 CO 3 ( aq ) → H 2 O ( l ) + CO 2 ( g ).
Answer: No, your example is merely a chemical reaction, where the properties of the substances are reacting due to their individual properties. This doesn't require any instructions at all. This is like the formation of snowflakes - water molecules combining into a crystalline form simply due to the property of H2O as a polar molecule, thus only allowing crystalline combinations as it freezes.
On the other hand, our genetic code is not merely a chemical reaction but a digital code which instructs the same molecules to either combine or separate based on the code itself.
BTW, the Bible says there are no atheists. Why? Because God's existence is plain for all to see:
Romans 1: "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them."
"For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools..."
"Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also of those who practice them."
Comment:
1) We all KNOW God exists.
2) Some of us do not think it worthwhile to retain that knowledge of God so we 'throw it out', to our own demise. This is how the 'atheist' mindset is made - by throwing out information given to us by our Creator.
This is completely the opposite from what atheists claim - that they became atheists because they received information - information about the theory of evolution, the theory of abiogenesis, the theory of cosmology, the theory of etc, etc., etc.
3) We all KNOW we deserve the sentence of death/hell - due to our multiple violations of the Moral Code (lying, cheating, stealing, hatred, anger, jealousy, greed, etc.).
Bottom line: Theories don't change realities. If we don't want to humble ourselves and come to God for forgiveness for our multiple violations of His Moral Code, then it's not God who sends us to hell. No, its ourselves who choose to go there.
Answer: No, your example is merely a chemical reaction, where the properties of the substances are reacting due to their individual properties. This doesn't require any instructions at all. This is like the formation of snowflakes - water molecules combining into a crystalline form simply due to the property of H2O as a polar molecule, thus only allowing crystalline combinations as it freezes.
On the other hand, our genetic code is not merely a chemical reaction but a digital code which instructs the same molecules to either combine or separate based on the code itself.
BTW, the Bible says there are no atheists. Why? Because God's existence is plain for all to see:
Romans 1: "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them."
"For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools..."
"Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also of those who practice them."
Comment:
1) We all KNOW God exists.
2) Some of us do not think it worthwhile to retain that knowledge of God so we 'throw it out', to our own demise. This is how the 'atheist' mindset is made - by throwing out information given to us by our Creator.
This is completely the opposite from what atheists claim - that they became atheists because they received information - information about the theory of evolution, the theory of abiogenesis, the theory of cosmology, the theory of etc, etc., etc.
3) We all KNOW we deserve the sentence of death/hell - due to our multiple violations of the Moral Code (lying, cheating, stealing, hatred, anger, jealousy, greed, etc.).
Bottom line: Theories don't change realities. If we don't want to humble ourselves and come to God for forgiveness for our multiple violations of His Moral Code, then it's not God who sends us to hell. No, its ourselves who choose to go there.
Last edited:
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Delusion much?
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Thanks @Milton Platt for saving me a lot of typing, LOL. Very nice response to a pile of dreary thinking... or what supposedly passes for thought.
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
"Life" - which is a condition of matter in a stable configuration that allows for continued refresh of itself via material and energetic input - would, most certainly, require some form of "information" in order to store its configuration and build upon it. One could also view the orbit of any celestial body as a vessel for conveyance of information. The relationship of one body to another via gravity is ultimately knowable using what end up being fairly simple mathematics. There is a "pattern" there, and always has been, that does, indeed, convey this information.
What I am trying to say is that, no matter what the physical laws of our universe end up being, in order for there to be any order at all, those laws have to be in place, immutable, and convey what they are via "information" that can be studied and assimilated into a knowledge-base. I don't think you're surprising anyone here.
KBC1963
Active Member
Did any form of existence come about by chance or design or did it evolve or are you going with the ever popular has always existed?
It's interesting to see this jab keep reoccurring. No matter what world view you have, the question still comes back to the fact that you either have to admit the possibility of an uncaused cause or assert an infinite regression and if you choose infinite regression as a possible answer then what caused the infinite regression to begin?
The observable evidence shows that every cause is always greater than the effect it generates so essentially whatever first set the ball rolling would be a god to any subsequent effects.... the only question is whether you believe the original cause had intent or whether you BELIEVE it did not. A belief is still a belief in the absence of scientific evidence... religion vs. religion