Genocide in 1st Samuel 15:2-3

[sandy whitelinger]

How not? How does it not meet the definition of genocide? God commands the Israelites to kill all the Amalekites, including the children and babies. Isn't that the quintessential example of what genocide is?

I'm not sure if killing your cousins qualifies as genocide. The Amalekites are neither a cultural of political group. It might be possible to loosely define them as a culutral group except they were not the only nomads in the Negev. Perhaps it's closer to fratricide yet I don't think the action falls under either category.

 

[Autodidact]

I'm not sure if killing your cousins qualifies as genocide. The Amalekites are neither a cultural of political group. It might be possible to loosely define them as a culutral group except they were not the only nomads in the Negev. Perhaps it's closer to fratricide yet I don't think the action falls under either category.

So your quibble with calling this genocide is that the Israelites were too closely related to the Amalekites to consider them a tribe, country or cultural group?!? That's your distinction? Is there anything in the definition of genocide that excludes being closely related in some way?

btw, on what basis do you assert that Israelites and Amalekites are "cousins"? And what difference does it make?

Talk about an absurd, desperate argument. As if killing all of your cousins was somehow more moral than killing all of someone else's cousins.

 

[Autodidact]

Apparently, Sandy, you don't consider it appropriate to answer questions addressed to you, while you address questions to others? So you expect more courtesy than you're willing to grant?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Apparently, Sandy, you don't consider it appropriate to answer questions addressed to you, while you address questions to others? So you expect more courtesy than you're willing to grant?

Tee, hee. The more you harp on it the more I delay. Yet what you fail to realze is that I have answered some of your questions, you've just failed to grasp it. Keep trying though.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

So your quibble with calling this genocide is that the Israelites were too closely related to the Amalekites to consider them a tribe, country or cultural group?!? That's your distinction? Is there anything in the definition of genocide that excludes being closely related in some way?

btw, on what basis do you assert that Israelites and Amalekites are "cousins"? And what difference does it make?

Talk about an absurd, desperate argument. As if killing all of your cousins was somehow more moral than killing all of someone else's cousins.

Perhaps you should answer the second half of the question I asked Keithnurse before you decided to answer it yourself. Who are the Amalekites.

And yes, killing my cousin before they kill me would be on my agenda.

 

[Autodidact]

Tee, hee. The more you harp on it the more I delay. Yet what you fail to realze is that I have answered some of your questions, you've just failed to grasp it. Keep trying though.

No thanks. I don't like talking to people who are too rude or cowardly to answer polite questions. I'll just assume that you acknowledge that you don't have a leg to stand on and converse with people who are willing to exhibit common courtesy.

 

[Autodidact]

Perhaps you should answer the second half of the question I asked Keithnurse before you decided to answer it yourself. Who are the Amalekites.

And yes, killing my cousin before they kill me would be on my agenda.

Perhaps you should answer the many outstanding questions addressed to you before having the temerity to pose them to others.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Perhaps you should answer the many outstanding questions addressed to you before having the temerity to pose them to others.

I believe I asked that question first. And temerity has nothing to do with it.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

No thanks. I don't like talking to people who are too rude or cowardly to answer polite questions. I'll just assume that you acknowledge that you don't have a leg to stand on and converse with people who are willing to exhibit common courtesy.

Yet you still continue conversing, strange. your therapist might be able to help you with that. And yes, I admit I don't play by your rules or follow your guidelines. Shoot me.

 

[sojourner]

Yet you still continue conversing, strange. your therapist might be able to help you with that. And yes, I admit I don't play by your rules or follow your guidelines. Shoot me.

My, aren't we full of ourselves?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

My, aren't we full of ourselves?

I don't know about you but I certainly am.:yes:

 

[Autodidact]

Yet you still continue conversing, strange. your therapist might be able to help you with that. And yes, I admit I don't play by your rules or follow your guidelines. Shoot me.

No thanks, I'd rather just refrain from conversing with you. I prefer talking with more courteous people.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

No thanks, I'd rather just refrain from conversing with you. I prefer talking with more courteous people.

Yet you still keep replying. I'll just have to assume your argument is full of holes which is why you, courteous as you are, never answered ALL of my initial questions. Howww woode.

 

[Kerr]

I'm not sure if killing your cousins qualifies as genocide. The Amalekites are neither a cultural of political group. It might be possible to loosely define them as a culutral group except they were not the only nomads in the Negev. Perhaps it's closer to fratricide yet I don't think the action falls under either category.

In what way does it matter if they where not defined as a cultural or political group? The morality of killing them all is still the same. Besides, genocide is far from limited to cultural and political groups.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

In what way does it matter if they where not defined as a cultural or political group? The morality of killing them all is still the same. Besides, genocide is far from limited to cultural and political groups.

You're right. Genocide inclides racial groups, at least by definition. My point here is that many try and slur God by claiming He's genocidal when the term doesn't fit. It's the abhorant nature of the term which people who hate god wish to impute to Him. It's pathetic.

Morality is subjective as well as justification.

"There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof arethe ways of death." Proverbs 14:12 KJV

 

[Kerr]

You're right. Genocide inclides racial groups, at least by definition. My point here is that many try and slur God by claiming He's genocidal when the term doesn't fit. It's the abhorant nature of the term which people who hate god wish to impute to Him. It's pathetic.

Morality is subjective as well as justification.

"There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof arethe ways of death." Proverbs 14:12 KJV

That is a matter of definition, not a matter of right and wrong. As I see it, what God ordered was, if it was not a genocide, just as immoral as a genocide. So in terms of morality it does not matter if what he ordered fit the definition of genocide, he was still "genocidal". If that makes sense, not sure about if it was the best way to put it, lol.

About morality being subjective, I am well aware of that, but it is my sense of right and wrong I use to look at the world.

 

[gnostic]

Morality is subjective as well as justification.

:sorry1: but isn't the bible a form of self-justication of the belief in the existence of a "one god"?

If you read the writings of the prophets Jeremiah, Ezekial and Isaiah not only prophecise the destruction of Israel's enemies, but also destruction of Israel or Judah, should the Israelites stray from him (god).

My point here is that many try and slur God by claiming He's genocidal when the term doesn't fit. It's the abhorant nature of the term which people who hate god wish to impute to Him. It's pathetic.

How can it be a slur, if you can read all this in the bible?

If you believe that Samuel was indeed a prophet, then how can it be slur, if god communicated with Samuel, who ordered Saul to massarce the Amalekites, and quite clearly stated that even babies should not be spared.

Saul didn't obey completely, and was punished with madness in the form of excessive jealousy and paranoid. And according to this book, the madness was inflicted by god, via "evil spirit".

That's how the narrative of 1 Samuel was written. Whether you take the narrative literally or not, narrative is still clear what this god said and did, even if it is in the form of parable.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

How can it be a slur, if you can read all this in the bible?

Because it wasn't genocide.

 

[Autodidact]

Because it wasn't genocide.

Sandy prefers to hold on to his fantasy that massacring an entire tribe does not meet his personal technical definition of genocide, all the while refusing to answer any questions that might disabuse him of this misconception. Whatever it takes to maintain his religious beliefs, I guess.

Sandy also maintains that the babies were killed not for being Amalekite, but for something horrible that they did before their first birthday. When asked what on earth these little babies could possibly have done to merit capital punishment, he again declines to respond.

Somehow one suspects that were Sandy an Amalekite, he'd see it differently. Like many religionists, Sandy suffers from an inability to sympathize with people from outside his tribe.

 

[gwk230]

Has anyone ever really noticed that it usually is only the atheist that ask such or argue such things?

Elohim created all things and can and will do with his own creation as he see's fit. It don't matter what we as the created think and feel. Flesh does not matter at all. There is only one thing that matters and that is if we are going to obey Elohim or not and if we will do so even under the strains and pulls of live. If all this means he killed or had killed babies then so be it. They were probably much better off than to have been raised by those that would have continually looked on them as the sons and daughters of their enemies. Again it doesn't matter. Call it whatever you want. I like the word genocide and do believe that that is exactly what was done. Elohim probably does not look at or think about those things as men do but probably looked at it as complete and utter justice by which the whole of the entire world would know that you don't mess with the one that created all things to do that which is not pleasing to his eye's.