Genuine Question Regarding Anti-Semitism

[psychoslice]

Speak for yourself - and try not to be so frivolous when attributing flaws to other people you don't even have a clear conception of, please.

well there you are, you were just against me, for doing nothing wrong, good example thanks.

 

[outhouse]

It was feared by the Jewish authorities that Jesus was an instigator. They wanted to stop Jesus permanently so the situation would not escalate out of control.

Not bad.

It was the Jewish authorities, but more important it was the temple authorities. Hated and corrupt, and they were not any authority over a Galilean outside the temple. It really was not a religious context.


There were many different sects of Jews but Hellenist like Caiaphas placed in power by the Romans amounted to a puppet ruler more so then any Jewish leader.

Knowing the temple was gods house, If Caiaphas was a real Jew, why did he use Melqart a pagan deity on the required temple currency?


I don't like to use the term Jew describing Jesus arrest. Temple authorities trying to keep peace using Roman muscle murdered him.

 

[paarsurrey]

The word "Jew" is after "Judah" who never was an exemplary spiritual person v Joseph, Isaac, Abraham. When one changes/lowers oneself from the moral/spiritual to material/racial the outlook changes and becomes negative.

Regards

 

[beenie]

Is it wrong?

Regards

It's deceptive. It would be one thing if both men and women were converting to Islam as adults, but the tendency is for women to "convert" (often in name only) to Islam so that the husband's family will accept her; having a lot of children who are assigned a religion just by virtue of being born is also deceptive.

Fear of punishment for leaving the religion is another reason the stats will show that there are more Muslims. I personally know several closer atheists that won't disclose their disbelief out of fear of being kicked out of their homes/dovorced, etc. Death isn't as much of a fear in the US, but Muslims still won't admit Id they've left the faith.

 

[metis]

There is no mention of the “cleansing of the Temple” in any of the accounts of Jesus’s trial in the canonical Gospels or any other Gospel. It would have been very easy for the Gospel writers to construct a story in Jesus’s defense. Did they forget? I don’t think so. According to the Gospel accounts, Jesus was not found guilty of any crime. “Then Pilate announced to the chief priests and the crowd, "I find no basis for a charge against this man."” (Luke 23:4) In All likelihood Jesus was executed simply to avoid an uprising.

“49 Then one of them, named Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, spoke up, "You know nothing at all! 50 You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish."” (John 11:49-50)
​

Biblical scholar Elaine Pagels believes that may be true quote from Caiaphas. If we look closely at that verse Caiaphas appears to be justifying the execution of Jesus not because he is guilty of any crime, but because Caiaphas did want Israel to suffer the wrath of the Romans. It was feared by the Jewish authorities that Jesus was an instigator. They wanted to stop Jesus permanently so the situation would not escalate out of control.

The very thing the Jewish authorities feared actually happened a generation after the death of Jesus. A Roman soldier exposes his private parts in the Temple. A riot breaks out. In the end, 10,000 Jews are dead.

“NOW after the death of Herod, king of Chalcis, Claudius set Agrippa, the son of Agrippa, over his uncle's kingdom, while Cumanus took upon him the office of procurator of the rest, which was a Roman province, and therein he succeeded Alexander; under which Cureanus began the troubles, and the Jews' ruin came on; for when the multitude were come together to Jerusalem, to the feast of unleavened bread, and a Roman cohort stood over the cloisters of the temple, (for they always were armed, and kept guard at the festivals, to prevent any innovation which the multitude thus gathered together might make,) one of the soldiers pulled back his garment, and cowering down after an indecent manner, turned his breech to the Jews, and spake such words as you might expect upon such a posture. At this the whole multitude had indignation, and made a clamor to Cumanus, that he would punish the soldier; while the rasher part of the youth, and such as were naturally the most tumultuous, fell to fighting, and caught up stones and threw them at the soldiers. Upon which Cumanus was afraid lest all the people should make an assault upon him, and sent to call for more armed men, who, when they came in great numbers into the cloisters, the Jews were in a very great consternation; and being beaten out of the temple, they ran into the city; and the violence with which they crowded to get out was so great, that they trod upon each other, and squeezed one another, till ten thousand of them were killed, insomuch that this feast became the cause of mourning to the whole nation, and every family lamented their own relations.” (Josephus, The Wars Of The Jews, Book 2, Chapter 12, Paragraph 1) http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/war-2.htm
​

Jesus violated Roman law in some way, plus we well know that the Romans couldn't care less about Jewish Law as long as we kept the order and paid their taxes. Evidence for this is that the Romans allowed for us to create the Great Sanhedrin whereas we could perform our own functions and also police ourselves.

Therefore, exactly which Roman law did Jesus violate or threaten in some way, and this is what the real question should be. The chasing of the money-changers makes sense as possibly meeting that criterion, but also so does Jesus talking about his "kingdom". "Blasphemy" does not meet that criterion.

Also, because of the rift between Jesus' followers and most Jews, there would be an incentive for the authors of the "N.T." to place as much blame on the Jews who didn't convert as possible. IOW, demonize the opposition.

So, do the gospels capture exactly what happened? Too hard to say since all scripture is subjective. But one thing is quite clear, and that is that Jesus in some way threatened the Romans besides saying things that most Jews simply did not agree with and may have considered threatening in some way, possibly in regards to keeping the order.

 

[roger1440]

Not bad.

It was the Jewish authorities, but more important it was the temple authorities. Hated and corrupt, and they were not any authority over a Galilean outside the temple. It really was not a religious context.


There were many different sects of Jews but Hellenist like Caiaphas placed in power by the Romans amounted to a puppet ruler more so then any Jewish leader.

Knowing the temple was gods house, If Caiaphas was a real Jew, why did he use Melqart a pagan deity on the required temple currency?


I don't like to use the term Jew describing Jesus arrest. Temple authorities trying to keep peace using Roman muscle murdered him.

The actually name of the person or persons responsible for the death of Jesus isn’t as important as to the why he was executed. Once a motive can be established it makes it easier to narrow down who might have been responsible. Rather than focus on Jesus’s guilt or innocence to determine the motive, it is best focus on the Jews and Romans.

Parallels can be made between the execution of Jesus and the dropping of the atomic bombs on Japan during the Second World War. These bombs did not discriminate. Hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children were killed. It was easy for the United States government to justify this. The dropping of these bombs saved the lives of American soldiers at the expense of throwing the Geneva Convention out the window.

 

[outhouse]

Once a motive can be established it makes it easier to narrow down who might have been responsible

We have motive

He caused some kind of disturbance in the temple when peace was required.

We have it narrowed down to a Roman death

 

[outhouse]

The word "Jew" is after "Judah" who never was an exemplary spiritual person v Joseph, Isaac, Abraham. When one changes/lowers oneself from the moral/spiritual to material/racial the outlook changes and becomes negative.

Regards

Thanks for providing examples some muslims are anti Semitic by nature

You just don't have a clue do you?

 

[CMike]

Not bad.

It was the Jewish authorities, but more important it was the temple authorities. Hated and corrupt, and they were not any authority over a Galilean outside the temple. It really was not a religious context.


There were many different sects of Jews but Hellenist like Caiaphas placed in power by the Romans amounted to a puppet ruler more so then any Jewish leader.

Knowing the temple was gods house, If Caiaphas was a real Jew, why did he use Melqart a pagan deity on the required temple currency?


I don't like to use the term Jew describing Jesus arrest. Temple authorities trying to keep peace using Roman muscle murdered him.

Maybe the Jewish authorities were hated by the Christians who weren't successfull selling the new G-D. However, Jews didn't have issues with the Jews.

 

[Flankerl]

The word "Jew" is after "Judah" who never was an exemplary spiritual person v Joseph, Isaac, Abraham. When one changes/lowers oneself from the moral/spiritual to material/racial the outlook changes and becomes negative.

Regards

Ah yes of course.

 

[Nakosis]

You know, it's a legitimate question whether or not Judaism teaches folks to treat non-Jews as equals, but even if Judaism did not teach people to do that, it would not thereby legitimatize antisemitism.

You are right. But the point was never to legitimize it. Only perhaps understand a cause and see it there is a possible solution.

People often hate something they see as a threat.

In Germany it was perceived that the Jews as a minority had taken control over a large part of their economy. Obviously easy to get the poor of Germany to see Jews rich 1% that was keeping the poor, poor. The truth, Germany wanted their assets. Jews were an easily identifiable group, that could be portrayed as the wealthy.

Works still today in the US. They are a easily identifiable group that you can promote jealously of. Any minority group, easily identifiable, that seems to have a consolidation of power would work to get the support of the masses.

 

[thau]

I posted a similar thread asking why anti-Semitism still exists in European countries, in pockets of the U.S., and elsewhere. In honestly appalled by it, and I would like to understand why Jews have historically been persecuted repeatedly.

The last thread got derailed with personal attacks, and that is unacceptable. Please stick to the topic, as I've had members ask to have the thread restarted so they could reply. Don't make us shut another thread down.

Why does anti-Semitism still exist and why have Jews in particular been persecuted throughout history?

Jews are persecuted throughout history because they are G-d’s chosen people from whom He has manifested Himself to the whole world. The devil despises this.

They are persecuted even more ferociously because out of the G-d’s chosen people would arise the messiah, the anointed one. Yeshua. The one who would destroy death, atone for sin, and be salvation to the world. The devil is evil incarnate and spins himself into the ground over this. He has been granted some real powers and he uses them influencing corrupt hearts and minds. He delights in death and torture and the Jews must be his favorite target. Life is very heavy and intense and surely not intended as a time for 50 or so years of fun.

 

[paarsurrey]

Ah yes of course.

Thanks for agreeing with me.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Jews are persecuted throughout history because they are G-d’s chosen people from whom He has manifested Himself to the whole world. The devil despises this.

They are persecuted even more ferociously because out of the G-d’s chosen people would arise the messiah, the anointed one. Yeshua. The one who would destroy death, atone for sin, and be salvation to the world. The devil is evil incarnate and spins himself into the ground over this. He has been granted some real powers and he uses them influencing corrupt hearts and minds. He delights in death and torture and the Jews must be his favorite target. Life is very heavy and intense and surely not intended as a time for 50 or so years of fun.

G-d is not racial, he loves the righteous. When Jews became racial, material and did evil deeds they did not remain chosen of G-d.

They were chosen for doing virtues not for doing evil deeds.

Regards

 

[Harikrish]

You are right. But the point was never to legitimize it. Only perhaps understand a cause and see it there is a possible solution.

People often hate something they see as a threat.

In Germany it was perceived that the Jews as a minority had taken control over a large part of their economy. Obviously easy to get the poor of Germany to see Jews rich 1% that was keeping the poor, poor. The truth, Germany wanted their assets. Jews were an easily identifiable group, that could be portrayed as the wealthy.

Works still today in the US. They are a easily identifiable group that you can promote jealously of. Any minority group, easily identifiable, that seems to have a consolidation of power would work to get the support of the masses.

Why were the Jews in Germany so insensitive? Shouldn't they have given back something to the German people instead of waiting for the Germans to take it away from them.

The Jews have been monopolizing God. It was their God of Abraham, their God of Moses, their God of David. It was like all the prophets were sent to liberate them from their oppressors. The Romans like the Germans got a bit tired of this racism and took their religion away from them and gave it to the Roman Catholic Church. History repeating itself!!!

 

[Levite]

Astonishing. It never fails: ask a legitimate question about anti-Semitism, brings all the raving anti-Semites out of the woodwork.

Honestly, some of the things people believe....

 

[metis]

Why were the Jews in Germany so insensitive? Shouldn't they have given back something to the German people instead of waiting for the Germans to take it away from them.

The Jews have been monopolizing God. It was their God of Abraham, their God of Moses, their God of David. It was like all the prophets were sent to liberate them from their oppressors. The Romans like the Germans got a bit tired of this racism and took their religion away from them and gave it to the Roman Catholic Church. History repeating itself!!!

It is not a Jewish belief that somehow we have a monopoly on God and that only we can be "saved" or looked at favorably by God. And your "history" is pathetically fallacious in regards to both the Romans and Germans.

 

[thau]

G-d is not racial, he loves the righteous. When Jews became racial, material and did evil deeds they did not remain chosen of G-d.

They were chosen for doing virtues not for doing evil deeds.

Regards

Well, perhaps. But the Jews greatest times of sinning was in the O.T. and the prophets warned them but they did not listen. (wanderers in the desert, bitten by serpents, and exiled to name three events) Since the Diaspora I do not see this. I see centuries of persecution. Even this past century, the Jews of Israel have, for all intents and purposes, been martyrs, not evil doers by any means.
.
The fact they have their own sins (materialism, lust, pride, etc) like every other race and religion does not single them out for extraordinary punishments. Or do you think it should? Nor do I follow this racial charge?

 

[paarsurrey]

Well, perhaps. But the Jews greatest times of sinning was in the O.T. and the prophets warned them but they did not listen. (wanderers in the desert, bitten by serpents, and exiled to name three events) Since the Diaspora I do not see this. I see centuries of persecution. Even this past century, the Jews of Israel have, for all intents and purposes, been martyrs, not evil doers by any means.
.
The fact they have their own sins (materialism, lust, pride, etc) like every other race and religion does not single them out for extraordinary punishments. Or do you think it should? Nor do I follow this racial charge?

I don't approve their persecution, nevertheless they must improve and reform. Those who are chosen it is implied in it that if they do wrong, they will get punishment manifolds from others. Jews deviated from the Covenant, that is the cause of their plight. They should come under the umbrella of the Covenant again.

Is there any harm in it?

Regards

 

[Phil25]

I don't approve their persecution, nevertheless they must improve and reform. Those who are chosen it is implied in it that if they do wrong, they will get punishment manifolds from others. Jews deviated from the Covenant, that is the cause of their plight. They should come under the umbrella of the Covenant again.

Is there any harm in it?

Regards

Reforms are required for Islam. Is there any harm in it?