Genuine Witchcraft, Sorcery, Necromancy, etc.

[A Vestigial Mote]

I mean of course I agree it's lunacy, but if you believe in demonic possession, how can you be sure these people aren't right?

This right here is one HUGE reason I can't buy into ANY of it. Any belief system where supernatural occurrences are proclaimed real is, in my opinion, a display of an overwhelming intelligential ineptitude of mankind. It honestly saddens me to see people get "caught up in the spirit". I see only foolishness, brainlessness, and I lose faith in mankind's ability to simply accept reality for what it is - there is a true loss of genuine human to human contact, I feel, when the basis for many humans coming together to form bonds is done on the pretense of a false and completely ignorant mess of radically fantastic ideas.

And HOW? HOW can a person discredit ANYONE who says they heard from a God, or they were inspired or demanded something by a God, if they themselves believe in such things? How do they ever know they are right in calling anyone else a lunatic WHO ESPOUSE THE SAME SORTS OF PRETERNATURAL GOINGS ON AS THEY DO?!?

 

[Quintessence]

What's more sad is the sort of judgmental attitudes above. "People won't accept 'reality' as I view it, oh, woe is me! Everyone else is an idiot!" Really? I mean, really?

 

[Brickjectivity]

I assume Jews and Christians would say that prayers differ from spells because the request is made to God as opposed to Joe Spirit?

Jews are of many kinds as are Christians, and what they consider to be prayer can be extremely different as you go from one variety to another. Some do not make requests at all when they pray and are merely thankful. Many Jews would not say that. Many Christians would not either. Besides, what is a spell? Nobody seems to have a definitive answer.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

What's more sad is the sort of judgmental attitudes above. "People won't accept 'reality' as I view it, oh, woe is me! Everyone else is an idiot!" Really? I mean, really?

Accepting reality "as it is" and making things up to craft your own reasoning for things and making them your reality are completely different things. And, of course I realize I can't make people stop thinking fantasy is reality, I understand this. But no less will I continue to see a devaluation of humankind in the prevalence of fantasy held onto with what I (yes me, and possibly only me - which I acknowledge, and by the way - why do you care?) view a near psychotic fervency.

Seriously - if you saw a person smacking their own rear end, pretending to ride an imaginary unicorn while whistling show-tunes and wearing Twinkies tied onto their feet, all while proclaiming that all of those things were "armor" against the imminent end times according to their beliefs, are you telling me that NO ONE should question that person's mental/emotional/social stability? Really? Because that is only an exaggeration of the types of things one can witness going on day in and day out everywhere across the world.

I also understand that my particular opinion need mean absolutely nothing to others. Which is fine. Therefore it shouldn't matter who I consider an idiot.

 

[Draka]

If interaction with other spirits is not enough, and spirits need to interact with not spirits, that does not bode well when we all will be spirits.

I wonder if it is not the other way round. We want to interact with them, somehow.

Don't you think it is more plausible?

Ciao

- viole

Some of us do want to interact with the spirit realm, that's a given. But, if you think about it, don't you think that, if you were to at least entertain the idea of a spirit realm, that their communication and interaction would be inherently different than that on the physical realm? Perhaps some just miss it. The interaction. Or perhaps some want to reach out to others and let them know they are ok, or that it, in general, is ok. Or maybe they feel as if they haven't finished, or have things undone. There could be a multitude of reasons a spirit may make contact. Heck, could even be just for fun.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It's not really trolling, my real belief is that people who reach adulthood still believing in witches, demons, and things that go bump in the night have seriously missed something developmentally.

I mean really, if there were cases of demonic possession, don't you think we'd have one on video by now? Just video tape one of these totally legitimate exorcisms that the Catholc Church is performing? If there are witches, show me one spell. Just cast one single spell on camera and I'll renounce my disbelief in witches.

Why isn't the world up in arms over the demon threat? Why aren't people more worried about being possessed? Maybe it's because I'm here to protect you all.

There is video and audio of real possessions. As for me, I don't need video or audio. I know what I've experienced.

 

[picnic]

There is video and audio of real possessions. As for me, I don't need video or audio. I know what I've experienced.

People can behave in strange ways. We like to think that we are perfectly rational beings and in total control of our bodies and accurately perceiving objective reality. That isn't 100% true.

I don't doubt that you have seen or felt some strange things, but humans are strange beings. I think if we understood our own bodies and psychologies better, then we would all be atheists.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

People can behave in strange ways. We like to think that we are perfectly rational beings and in total control of our bodies and accurately perceiving objective reality. That isn't 100% true.

I don't doubt that you have seen or felt some strange things, but humans are strange beings. I think if we understood our own bodies and psychologies better, then we would all be atheists.

I think I have a pretty decent understanding of those things and atheism and materialism doesn't cut it.

 

[Quintessence]

I think I have a pretty decent understanding of those things and atheism and materialism doesn't cut it.

This shouldn't be the issue, though, should it? Suggesting "if only people were more educated, they'd be atheist" demonstrates a poor understanding of theisms, in addition to sounding rather arrogant and patronizing. It's unfortunate how much of that same attitude there is to be witnessed in this thread on the subject of spellcraft, but it sadly isn't surprising either.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

This shouldn't be the issue, though, should it? Suggesting "if only people were more educated, they'd be atheist" demonstrates a poor understanding of theisms, in addition to sounding rather arrogant and patronizing. It's unfortunate how much of that same attitude there is to be witnessed in this thread on the subject of spellcraft, but it sadly isn't surprising either.

Oh, I caught the rudeness of it. But what can you do?

 

[Quintessence]

Oh, I caught the rudeness of it. But what can you do?

I think we all have a tendency to slip into that mindset from time to time. I notice myself doing it too with "well, if were more educated about theisms, they wouldn't say such stupid $#@% about it" as if that's somehow an inevitability. That perspective is as much of a load of $#@% as what I just pointed out.

Part of the root issue here is nobody likes being judged harshly by others, particularly based on generalizations and stereotypes. We want to be seen as individuals, right? I know that a major reason why I whine about people saying stupid $#@% about theisms is because I don't fit into their little mold. If anything the sciences pushed me towards theism, as I began to recognize my utter and total dependence on various bits of the world around me. Those, I decided, are my gods, and since estis, ergo sum (you are, therefore I am), I'd better learn to be more respectful of that Weave.

 

[picnic]

Oh, I caught the rudeness of it. But what can you do?

Sorry if what I posted came across as rude. That was not my intention. I've had quite a few apparently paranormal experiences, and I struggled for a while to understand them. Most people have no idea how deceptive our minds can be. That was my point. No rudeness was intended.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Going back to the original subject of Exodus 22 verses 18 and surroundings, there is a real disconnect between us and that book. In the first place we don't know a lot about what sorcery was, was witchcraft was. I get the impression that it was a political offence rather than a supernatural one, and that colors the meaning of the word witchcraft in that verse, too. In general anyone in leadership of any country was looked at as a religious figure. All the emperors of history in just about all places were religious figures: all the kings and all the nobles were either divine, friends of the divine, priests or in some way priestly. There is also a verse in I Samuel 15:23, where Israel's legendary first king, Saul, is told that his rebellion against the 'LORD' is equivalent to witchcraft. In modernity these two words seem unrelated, but what they have in common in that ancient time is politic. Most likely every time a 'Witch' or a 'Sorcerer' appeared, they were considered to have not only religious authority but authority in general, unlike today. In other words to be somebody you had to appear to have a supernatural power of some kind. So really what these laws against witchcraft are going after is more like a blend of supernaturalism and political dissidence, perhaps. Not that it matters for us today what with all the superstitions etc.

 

[psychoslice]

God himself said that he was jealous, he doesn't like competition , and so he doesn't like witchcraft, or any other powers.

 

[Noa]

I have known many faithful over the years and have only met one that believed in any stereotypical form of witch/warlock/etc. The vast majority I have talked to about the topic just think that any non-Christian spiritual things should be avoided because it is unwise to get involved with entities you do not know anything about. The common phrase is 'calling without knowing who is on the other end.'

 

[delizzle]

When you die you are first judged the you go to either heaven or hell. Although Catholics believe in a place called purgatory where a soul is purified. I however don't believe I'm purgatory so I don't believe in ghosts or spirits of people who once lived on earth. I do believe in angels and demons. They can take any form they choose. They can either bring peace and hope, or terror and suffering. When someone tries to speak to the dead they are not really speaking to a dead loved one but rather a demon that is trying to deceive you for more sinister purposes. Christians cannot be possessed because the Holy Spirit dwells within them however they can still be influenced or even attacked by demons.

 

[Demonslayer]

I do believe in angels and demons. They can take any form they choose.

Where are they? How come they aren't causing more trouble? Why haven't we ever seen a single one on video? You'd think by now there would be a whole Youtube section with demons. Funny how they exist yet no one, ever, has actually seen one.

When someone tries to speak to the dead they are not really speaking to a dead loved one but rather a demon that is trying to deceive you for more sinister purposes. Christians cannot be possessed because the Holy Spirit dwells within them however they can still be influenced or even attacked by demons.

How could you possibly know any of this? Also, your completely going against the Catholic Church who have performed exorcisms on Christians by the hundreds. How can you say Christians can't be possessed when the Church claims not only are Christians possessed but that priests have successfully ousted the demons from Christians,

Who's wrong, you or the church?

 

[delizzle]

Where are they? How come they aren't causing more trouble? Why haven't we ever seen a single one on video? You'd think by now there would be a whole Youtube section with demons. Funny how they exist yet no one, ever, has actually seen one.



How could you possibly know any of this? Also, your completely going against the Catholic Church who have performed exorcisms on Christians by the hundreds. How can you say Christians can't be possessed when the Church claims not only are Christians possessed but that priests have successfully ousted the demons from Christians,

Who's wrong, you or the church?

Answered simply, the Catholic church. There is a reason why I am no longer Catholic. The contradictions you mentioned are a few.

 

[delizzle]

According to 1 Peter 1:5, when Christ reigns in a person’s life, that person is kept by God’s power. As a result, “the evil one does not touch him” (1 John 5:18). When the Holy Spirit inhabits a person, no demon can set up house as a squatter. Indwelling by demons is only evidence of a lack of genuine salvation.

 

[delizzle]

Now I am not saying that Catholics are not Christians. Nor am I saying that they are not saved. But I believe that hundreds of years of dogma and traditions have distracted it followers from the true teaching of God. You see the Catholic church believes that Jesus gave the apostle Peter and all his successors a divine authority on earth. Similar authority that Christ had. Peter was thus the first pope and whatever the Pope says that is the infallible truth must be held true to its followers. So now much of what the Catholic church teaches is not from the bible but rather from what a pope decreed hundreds of years ago.