Genuine Witchcraft, Sorcery, Necromancy, etc.

[Demonslayer]

Now I am not saying that Catholics are not Christians. Nor am I saying that they are not saved.

But specifically with regards to demons and possession, you're claiming Christians are immune to possession because they are filled with the protective holy spirit. The Catholic Church says Christians CAN be possessed.

So either:

1) You're mistaken in your claim that Christians are immune to demonic possession, or;
2) The Catholic Church is running around performing phoney exorcisms on Christians who can't really be possessed.

Which is it?

 

[Noa]

Wait, you are seriously arguing that possession is a sign of no salvation?

Really?

 

[delizzle]

But specifically with regards to demons and possession, you're claiming Christians are immune to possession because they are filled with the protective holy spirit. The Catholic Church says Christians CAN be possessed.

So either:

1) You're mistaken in your claim that Christians are immune to demonic possession, or;
2) The Catholic Church is running around performing phoney exorcisms on Christians who can't really be possessed.

Which is it?

First of all just because you claim to be a Christian does not mean you are saved. There are thousands of people who go to church yet they really don't believe in Christ but they go anyway for the wrong reasons. Your logic assumes that anyone who waives the banner that they are a Christian has truly accepted Christ as there savior and is not just going through the motions.

Second, I just quoted a scripture of the bible that says the Catholic view is wrong. So your question is not if "I am wrong or the Catholic Church? " but rather "is the bible wrong or the Catholic Church? " I already answered your question so I will answer it again. I believe the word of God over the word of the pope. The bible is right and the Catholic Church is wrong.

 

[delizzle]

A big misconception is that all you have to do is believe is Jesus and you are saved. That is not true. Scripture stated that even the demons believe in Jesus and the fear him. The key is to not only believe in Jesus but also to repent and accept Jesus as your savior.

 

[delizzle]

Wait, you are seriously arguing that possession is a sign of no salvation?

Really?

Yes

 

[Noa]

Yes

That is so bizarre. I do not even know how to respond to that. You do realize that you are in an incredibly small minority in that opinion and that a huge number of theologians (of all sorts of denominations) do not agree?

 

[delizzle]

That is so bizarre. I do not even know how to respond to that. You do realize that you are in an incredibly small minority in that opinion and that a huge number of theologians (of all sorts of denominations) do not agree?

Read 1 James 5. And tell me if the bible is wrong or the church?

 

[Noa]

Read 1 James 5. And tell me if the bible is wrong or the church?

False choices. The other, and far more obvious, option is that your interpretation is incorrect.

 

[Demonslayer]

First of all just because you claim to be a Christian does not mean you are saved. There are thousands of people who go to church yet they really don't believe in Christ but they go anyway for the wrong reasons. Your logic assumes that anyone who waives the banner that they are a Christian has truly accepted Christ as there savior and is not just going through the motions.

Fair enough. I certainly agree that there are tons of Christians who claim to be Christian but have zero belief in any of it. I think this is more and more common these days. People are hesitant to say they are atheist because of the bias against atheists, but in this era of knowledge about our world a lot of people can't actually believe in the heavenly father looking down on us and damning millions to enternal torturous damnation because they were raised in India in a Hindu family.

It does bring up the No True Scotsman fallacy though. Just how Christian does one need to believe to gain the demon-sheilding power of the holy spirit? What if you have a little doubt? Could a mini-demon slip in?

Second, I just quoted a scripture of the bible that says the Catholic view is wrong. So your question is not if "I am wrong or the Catholic Church? " but rather "is the bible wrong or the Catholic Church? " I already answered your question so I will answer it again. I believe the word of God over the word of the pope. The bible is right and the Catholic Church is wrong.

Awesome, this gels with my theory that the Catholic Church is a criminal organization full of charlatans and shysters.

At least we share one belief.

 

[delizzle]

Read 1 James 5. And tell me if the bible is wrong or the church?

The only way to prove me wrong is to show me in the bible using scripture to tell me I am wrong. If you can give me just one verse that says true christians are vulnerable to "demonic possession" I will yeald with a full apology. Better get started on your biblical research.

 

[delizzle]

Fair enough. I certainly agree that there are tons of Christians who claim to be Christian but have zero belief in any of it. I think this is more and more common these days. People are hesitant to say they are atheist because of the bias against atheists, but in this era of knowledge about our world a lot of people can't actually believe in the heavenly father looking down on us and damning millions to enternal torturous damnation because they were raised in India in a Hindu family.

It does bring up the No True Scotsman fallacy though. Just how Christian does one need to believe to gain the demon-sheilding power of the holy spirit? What if you have a little doubt? Could a mini-demon slip in?



Awesome, this gels with my theory that the Catholic Church is a criminal organization full of charlatans and shysters.

At least we share one belief.

Lol.[emoji4]

 

[Noa]

The only way to prove me wrong is to show me in the bible using scripture to tell me I am wrong. If you can give me just one verse that says true christians are vulnerable to "demonic possession" I will yeald with a full apology. Better get started on your biblical research.

Or I could just let you have your weird little belief and not care. I do not feel compelled to convince you on this or any other topic. I was just trying to make sure you were serious because it is such a bizarre thing to believe.

 

[Quintessence]

False choices. The other, and far more obvious, option is that your interpretation is incorrect.

Seems to me the far more obvious option is that various Christian traditions (and individual Christians) have differing interpretations of scripture and different teachings...

... its's kind of why there are thousands of denominations?

 

[Noa]

Seems to me the far more obvious option is that various Christian traditions (and individual Christians) have differing interpretations of scripture and different teachings...

... its's kind of why there are thousands of denominations?

Yes, that is normally my response on theological issues. Perhaps I was a bit rude on this topic and for that I apologize. I was caught off-guard because it is such an odd belief.

 

[delizzle]

Lol.[emoji4]

I will add though that it is not the Catholics that are bad, just the Catholic doctrine.

 

[Noa]

So you are willing to throw out an entire denomination's doctrine and worth based on this one single doctrinal conflict?

 

[delizzle]

So you are willing to throw out an entire denomination's doctrine and worth based on this one single doctrinal conflict?

No. When comparing the Catechism of the Catholic Church with the bible there are literally hundreds of conflicts from the Catholic doctrine and the bible. I obviously don't want to outline all of them but I will tell you that the primary reason for me to leave the Catholic church is that I don't believe in the divine authority of the pope. He is a very wise man with a lot of good things to say but not divine.

 

[Noa]

No. When comparing the Catechism of the Catholic Church with the bible there are literally hundreds of conflicts from the Catholic doctrine and the bible. I obviously don't want to outline all of them but I will tell you that the primary reason for me to leave the Catholic church is that I don't believe in the divine authority of the pope. He is a very wise man with a lot of good things to say but not divine.

Catholicism does not maintain that the pope is divine.

 

[Demonslayer]

I will add though that it is not the Catholics that are bad, just the Catholic doctrine.

This is an important distiction actually. Most of my friends and family are Catholic and I love them very much, despite the fact that I despise the church and think all religious dogma is divisive nonsense.

I always blame the religion, not religious people, and have disdain for religion itself, not the people who practice it.

I guess it's my atheist version of "love the sinner, hate the sin."

 

[delizzle]

Your right. To say he was divine was not accurate. Rather I tried to say that the Catholic Church believes the Pope has divine authority on earth.