George Zimmerman Verdict: NOT GUILTY

[Revoltingest]

A worthless and destructive legally correct verdict, yes.

I know there are some who see the court's function as making decisions based upon what they believe to be best for society. That is a fine larger goal, but in practice, they must rule based upon evidence & law, no matter where that leads. To do otherwise would gut confidence in the system & compliance with the law. We cannot have our courts deciding cases based upon the races of the accused & the victim.

 

[Revoltingest]

How well established is it that Travyon sought the conflict instead of the other way around?

This is not well established at all.

Or that his only reasonable self-defense involved using lethal force?

We had testimony that Zimmerman was a poor fighter. With Martin on top of him pounding away, this made using a gun appear reasonable.

Without a lot of certainty in both accounts, the most generous reading of the verdict is that it might conceivably turn out to be fair.

That sums it up well.

And even so, it is still destructive, due to its consequences outside of Zimmerman's personal convenience.

"Convenience" strikes me as the wrong word to describe his surviving an assault.

 

[LuisDantas]

I know there are some who see the court's function as making decisions based upon what they believe to be best for society. That is a fine larger goal, but in practice, they must rule based upon evidence & law, no matter where that leads. To do otherwise would gut confidence in the system & compliance with the law.

Which is both unavoidable and necessary.

We cannot have our courts deciding cases based upon the races of the accused & the victim.

But we sure should consider who carries a firearm and who killed who.

 

[LuisDantas]

This is not well established at all.

We had testimony that Zimmerman was a poor fighter. With Martin on top of him pounding away, this made using a gun appear reasonable.


That sums it up well.

"Convenience" strikes me as the wrong word to describe his surviving an assault.

I flat out doubt he had to kill Travyon to survive. The convenience I mean is that of not serving time due to manslaughter.

 

[Revoltingest]

I flat out doubt he had to kill Travyon to survive. The convenience I mean is that of not serving time due to manslaughter.

If we accept the testimony that Zimmerman is a poor fighter, & recognize that he was taking
a beating without inflicting any damage upon Martin, then what else would he have done?

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

I flat out doubt he had to kill Travyon to survive. The convenience I mean is that of not serving time due to manslaughter.

If he's not a good fighter and he's getting his head bounced off the ground, what other option does he have? What would you do if put in that position? Would you let him keep smashing your head into the ground in hopes that he'll grow tired and stop?

Also, there were no legal grounds to convict for manslaughter. It wasn't convenience; it was due process.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Both Martin and GZ made mistakes with GZ making the first one by following the kid but even that wasn't a crime, regardless of the instructions of the 911 operator. To my knowledge it is not a crime to disregard a 911 operator. Trayvon then probably said something to the degree of "you got a problem?" and assaulted him. Murderers usually don't call the police before they act. Murderers usually don't make statements to the police without their lawyers. Even if GZ threw the first punch, Trayvon should've laid off the guy after it was clear he was no match physically. At most, this should've been a common neighborhood scrap between two guys that ended with maybe a couple of black eyes and a bloody nose.

 

[Wirey]

If we accept the testimony that Zimmerman is a poor fighter, & recognize that he was taking
a beating without inflicting any damage upon Martin, then what else would he have done?

Take the beating maybe? I mean, and I'm not saying Martin is an innocent little lambkin here, Zimmerman followed him and caused the problem. If he backs off, nothing happens. Therefore, maybe a nice black eye would have served as an instructional device to many more pudgy, out of shape shcmucks who become evryone's equal the instant they can afford a Beretta. I'll bet if you asked him now, he'd take the beating. And in my humble opinion, he earned it.

Violence never solves anything, and if anyone disagrees with me, I'll break their legs! I mean, look, a birdie!

 

[Wirey]

I know there are some who see the court's function as making decisions based upon what they believe to be best for society. That is a fine larger goal, but in practice, they must rule based upon evidence & law, no matter where that leads. To do otherwise would gut confidence in the system & compliance with the law. We cannot have our courts deciding cases based upon the races of the accused & the victim.

Tried to frubal this. The courts uphold the law, not the prevailing emotional state of the loudest complainers.

 

[Alceste]

Just read that an elderly black man who was in a similar confrontation and killed a much larger, younger white man who was choking him has just been convicted of manslaughter in Florida. Stand your ground but only if you're white!

 

[Wirey]

Just read that an elderly black man who was in a similar confrontation and killed a much larger, younger white man who was choking him has just been convicted of manslaughter in Florida. Stand your ground but only if you're white!

Source? I wanna send it around at work.

 

[adi2d]

Could someone with more street fight experience help me picture the situation

Travon is in full mount position pounding Zs head into the concrete and Z can reach his holstered weapon? Not only draw it but swing it up and fire.

 

[moodys]

Just read that an elderly black man who was in a similar confrontation and killed a much larger, younger white man who was choking him has just been convicted of manslaughter in Florida. Stand your ground but only if you're white!

Is this it? 71-year-old black man found guilty of manslaughter, jury rejects ‘Stand Your Ground’ claim | theGrio

It sure looks like racism to me.

 

[Revoltingest]

Is this it? 71-year-old black man found guilty of manslaughter, jury rejects ‘Stand Your Ground’ claim | theGrio
It sure looks like racism to me.

It could be racism, but there is also this extremely provocative act by the defendant....

Neighbors who witnessed the altercation and later testified said they saw Dooley flip up his T-shirt, revealing a gun in his waistband, while cursing at James.

(I don't think she reads the articles she doesn't link.)

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Just read that an elderly black man who was in a similar confrontation and killed a much larger, younger white man who was choking him has just been convicted of manslaughter in Florida. Stand your ground but only if you're white!

George Zimmerman isn't white... Stop making this a race issue.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Could someone with more street fight experience help me picture the situation

Travon is in full mount position pounding Zs head into the concrete and Z can reach his holstered weapon? Not only draw it but swing it up and fire.

Not impossible; actually very likely. In the full mount position, Zimmerman's hip would be a couple inches below the crook of Martin's knee; Martin would be sitting on Zimmerman's belly button area. That leaves enough room to access the gun and slide it out of the holster. Since Martin has a hold of Zimmerman's head it is safe to assume Martin has broken the guard and Zimmerman's arms are flailing free. It's not an amazing feat of flexibility to reach around Martin's knee and pull the gun out from its holster, and his arms still pretty much have full range of movement since they aren't pinned down in the full mount position.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

But we sure should consider who carries a firearm and who killed who.

It's perfectly legal to own a firearm in the US. Having a firearm only makes Zimmerman a criminal in your fantasy land...

 

[Revoltingest]

Take the beating maybe? I mean, and I'm not saying Martin is an innocent little lambkin here, Zimmerman followed him and caused the problem. If he backs off, nothing happens. Therefore, maybe a nice black eye would have served as an instructional device to many more pudgy, out of shape shcmucks who become evryone's equal the instant they can afford a Beretta. I'll bet if you asked him now, he'd take the beating. And in my humble opinion, he earned it.
Violence never solves anything, and if anyone disagrees with me, I'll break their legs! I mean, look, a birdie!

He might have believed the beating could result in severe injury or death.
(I know one fella who was beaten so badly he was never right in the head afterwards. I know another who was in the can, & his assailant jumped in & beat him to the point where he was hospitalized. Dang, I know a lot of guys who have been beaten.)

 

[Revoltingest]

It's perfectly legal to own a firearm in the US. Having a firearm only makes Zimmerman a criminal in your fantasy land...

In his country (Brazil), only criminals & cops have guns.
Is this redundant?
Anyway, it's considered wrong for ordinary folk to defend themselves with guns.
I've no plans to move there.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

George Zimmerman isn't white... Stop making this a race issue.

I'm a little sick of this as well. This case was a b.s. manufactured storyline for the start. The news needed a white man to make the story sellable so they created a man who" identifies as Hispanic" whose father is "white" and whose mother is "Hispanic". In reality Zimmerman has native American and African roots through his mother and Jewish roots through his dad. Not quite as good a story. Still, if George's last name is Sanchez or Rodriguez we probably never about it.