Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

[muhammad_isa]

States get their money from lots of places.
...
Either way, GB has money and it could fund a better health service.

I'm not so sure..
The govt. has recently borrowed a lot of money in order to protect its citizens from covid, such as funding lockdown measures and providing widespread social welfare payments.
This money has to be paid back.
If it is not paid back, then the cost of borrowing increases substantially, or even becomes unavailable.

We don't have to go back far to see the real threat of this in the 2008 recession. Southern EU countries economies were at the brink, and Northern EU countries have bailed them out ever since.

It just seems as if you think the NHS is a sacred cow.

I say, we don't know what we've got until its gone.
G-d says "Give thanks to me and I will give you more".

I don't see that in a literal "G-d gives money or something",
but is more a matter of our attitude bringing failure or success.

 

[Rival]

I'm not so sure..
The govt. has recently borrowed a lot of money in order to protect its citizens from covid, such as funding lockdown measures and providing widespread social welfare payments.
This money has to be paid back.
If it is not paid back, then the cost of borrowing increases substantially, or even becomes unavailable.

We don't have to go back far to see the real threat of this in the 2008 recession. Southern EU countries economies were at the brink, and Northern EU countries have bailed them out ever since.


I say, we don't know what we've got until its gone.
G-d says "Give thanks to me and I will give you more".

I don't see that in a literal "G-d gives money or something",
but is more a matter of our attitude bringing failure or success.

So basically I need to be thankful for the NHS.

No. I am not thankful for bad service.

Am I thankful there is a medical service? Yes.

Do I like it and think it works? No.

 

[muhammad_isa]

No. I am not thankful for bad service.

Fill in a complaint form.

We're all going to die. Might as well die happy.
I'm fed up with complaining. It makes me more depressed.

 

[Sedim Haba]

That's not a bad idea. However, it would be easier to just jab them and release them.

yes, then they can feed the ones that die from the vaccine into ovens, they're experts at that too.

Because there IS such a thing as severe reactions to vaccines (or any other medication)
People with such sensitivity know about this. My wife almost died and has to wear a
bracelet at all times so no EMT will administer that category of medicine. Including vaccines.

I know someone (young!) who had a heart attack and almost died from the vaccine.
They had the virus previously, they already HAD the antibodies, but had to be jabbed to
satisfy blanket requirements.

 

[Sedim Haba]

Modern-day Germany is vastly different from what it was during both world wars. So are the U.S. and basically every single country that was involved in those.

a PEOPLE have a nature. There's a reason why what happened there was allowed to happen.
US is quite different as a melting pot of multiple cultures, it doesn't follow the same path.

 

[ecco]

People who are vaccinated can also contract the virus, so no .. it doesn't follow that it can no longer mutate.

You do not understand the concept of odds and probability.

Of course I do.

Someone who understands the concept of odds and probability would not make a comment like that.

Quarantine, for one.

People are livid over having to wear masks and you are seriously suggesting quarantine? Who would you quarantine? By the time a person has noticeable symptoms: They have already spread the disease; They have already given the virus a chance to mutate.

Quarantine, for one.
Improving air quality and ventilation another.
I could go on.

That certainly helps.

Alright, calm down..

It was a legitimate question. If English is not your first language, I would cut you some slack.

 

[ecco]

If people are too ignorant and selfish to care for society, perhaps they need a good kick in the ***, or, at least, a forced jab in the arm.

Spoken like a true Nazi.

Actually, spoken by someone who is outraged that 800,000 Americans are dead because of the actions of people like Trump and My Pillow Mike and their ignorant followers.

100,000 of those people have died since the vaccines were fully available to all Americans.
That's thirty-three 9/11's.

What would the reaction be if after 10 9/11's (30,000 dead) you and your fellow Americans continued to say: We can stop the attacks, but we are too independent-minded to want to.

What would the reaction be if after 20 9/11's (60,000 dead) you and your fellow Americans continued to say: We can stop the attacks, but we are too stubbornly ignorant to want to.

Would you still be carrying signs screaming: "We are OK with Osama Bin Laden continuing to kill more of us"? Would you be posting on RF saying: "I'm OK with Osama Bin Laden continuing to kill more of us"?

Yet here we are, six months after all Americans could have been vaccinated. We have a daily death toll of over 1000 Americans - a 9/11 every three days, and you and yours are OK with it.

Unfortunately, you do not see yourselves as the problem. Unfortunately, you do not see yourselves as the solution. Your actions are as unAmerican as knowingly giving flying lessons to admitted terrorists.

 

[Lain]

Actually, spoken by someone who is outraged that 800,000 Americans are dead because of the actions of people like Trump and My Pillow Mike and their ignorant followers.

100,000 of those people have died since the vaccines were fully available to all Americans.
That's thirty-three 9/11's.

What would the reaction be if after 10 9/11's (30,000 dead) you and your fellow Americans continued to say: We can stop the attacks, but we are too independent-minded to want to.

What would the reaction be if after 20 9/11's (60,000 dead) you and your fellow Americans continued to say: We can stop the attacks, but we are too stubbornly ignorant to want to.

Would you still be carrying signs screaming: "We are OK with Osama Bin Laden continuing to kill more of us"? Would you be posting on RF saying: "I'm OK with Osama Bin Laden continuing to kill more of us"?

Yet here we are, six months after all Americans could have been vaccinated. We have a daily death toll of over 1000 Americans - a 9/11 every three days, and you and yours are OK with it.

Unfortunately, you do not see yourselves as the problem. Unfortunately, you do not see yourselves as the solution. Your actions are as unAmerican as knowingly giving flying lessons to admitted terrorists.

The difference is one is a pandemic and one is a terrorist attack. If that wasn't obvious enough.

 

[ecco]

yes, then they can feed the ones that die from the vaccine into ovens, they're experts at that too.

References to the holocaust show your desperation to try to make an argument out of strawmen.




Please document, from reliable sources, how many people have died from a Covid vaccine shot.

Because there IS such a thing as severe reactions to vaccines (or any other medication)
People with such sensitivity know about this. My wife almost died and has to wear a
bracelet at all times so no EMT will administer that category of medicine. Including vaccines.

Sorry to hear, but you did not specify that the cause of her problem was a covid shot, so I'll guess it was not.

People have adverse reactions to herbs. Sometimes serious. Herbal medicines are not tested anywhere near the level of the covid vaccines.

I know someone (young!) who had a heart attack and almost died from the vaccine.
They had the virus previously, they already HAD the antibodies, but had to be jabbed to
satisfy blanket requirements.

That is anecdotal. Furthermore, you cannot show a cause-and-effect correlation between the shot and their death.

Years ago, and long before covid, I knew a very athletic 30ish man who died of a heart attack. He was one of the best players on our pick-up soccer team.

Your point is pointless.


On the other hand, 800,000 Americans are dead. Virtually all of them unvaccinated.

Your few unproven anecdotes can not compare to 800,000 unvaccinated dead.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Actually, spoken by someone who is outraged that 800,000 Americans are dead because of the actions of people like Trump and My Pillow Mike and their ignorant followers.

100,000 of those people have died since the vaccines were fully available to all Americans.
That's thirty-three 9/11's.

What would the reaction be if after 10 9/11's (30,000 dead) you and your fellow Americans continued to say: We can stop the attacks, but we are too independent-minded to want to.

What would the reaction be if after 20 9/11's (60,000 dead) you and your fellow Americans continued to say: We can stop the attacks, but we are too stubbornly ignorant to want to.

Would you still be carrying signs screaming: "We are OK with Osama Bin Laden continuing to kill more of us"? Would you be posting on RF saying: "I'm OK with Osama Bin Laden continuing to kill more of us"?

Yet here we are, six months after all Americans could have been vaccinated. We have a daily death toll of over 1000 Americans - a 9/11 every three days, and you and yours are OK with it.

Unfortunately, you do not see yourselves as the problem. Unfortunately, you do not see yourselves as the solution. Your actions are as unAmerican as knowingly giving flying lessons to admitted terrorists.

Vaccinated isn't going to stop this thing.

 

[Debater Slayer]

It didn’t begin with a vaccine mandate. It did begin with scapegoating a certain group of people.

I don't see vaccine mandates and other preventive measures targeting COVID as scapegoating anyone. Such mandates and measures aren't new either; some vaccines have been mandatory in multiple countries for years, and for children to boot.

 

[ecco]

The difference is one is a pandemic and one is a terrorist attack. If that wasn't obvious enough.

So what?! The pandemic has killed 266 times the number of people who died from the terror attack. Isn't that obvious enough?

Three thousand people died 9/11. The federal government took unprecedented actions to try to prevent another attack. That worked.

When the pandemic broke out the federal government paid several companies large amounts of money to develop vaccines. That worked.

Since July when the vaccines became available to all Americans over 100,000 have died. The federal government is strongly recommending people get vaccinated and imposing some mandates and restrictions. That is not working.

People who are against these government actions are prolonging the pandemic. They are as bad as people supporting terrorists.

Today, tomorrow, and Wednesday another 9/11 death count will occur because people refuse to get vaccinated. Isn't that obvious enough?

 

[Lain]

They are as bad as people supporting terrorists.

Can they at least get a cool name for their troubles? Terrorist groups usually have cool names, and if they are as bad as them I think they should be dignified by a cool name as the world burns (according to you).

 

[ecco]

Vaccinated isn't going to stop this thing.

Proof that you are wrong can be seen from the vaccination status of the people who are currently dying.

my emphases

Unvaccinated COVID-19 hospitalizations cost billions of dollars - Peterson-KFF Health System Tracker

As of December 2021, COVID-19 deaths are on the rise again. An average of almost 1,600 people per day continued to die of COVID-19 in the first eight days of December 2021. An overwhelming majority of COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. have been among unvaccinated people.

COVID-19 vaccines are highly effective at preventing severe disease, hospitalization, and death from COVID-19 and also reduce the likelihood of mild or asymptomatic infection.

Despite the availability of safe and effective COVID-19 vaccines, vaccination rates have lagged, particularly in some states and among younger people. As of early September 2021, 25% of adults over the age of 18 in the U.S. remain unvaccinated for COVID-19. As a result of lagging vaccinations and the more infectious delta variant, COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations, and deaths are on the rise again.​

 

[ecco]

Can they at least get a cool name for their troubles? Terrorist groups usually have cool names, and if they are as bad as them I think they should be dignified by a cool name as the world burns (according to you).

Paranoid Vaxx Idiots. PVI.


BTW, I don't understand why you would comment that I believe the world to be burning. However, if the world were burning it should be everyone's duty to do whatever is necessary to put out the fires. Instead, we have people who are throwing gasoline on the flames.

Terrorists don't need to invade from different countries. Have you never heard the term "domestic terrorism"?

 

[Lain]

Terrorists don't need to invade from different countries. Have you never heard the term "domestic terrorism"?

Yes. Uncle Teddy was one of 'em. Daddy John is accused of being one of them but he did nothing wrong (in my view). Not receiving a vaccine is a far cry from all that to me.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Since July when the vaccines became available to all Americans over 100,000 have died. The federal government is strongly recommending people get vaccinated and imposing some mandates and restrictions. That is not working.

People who are against these government actions are prolonging the pandemic. They are as bad as people supporting terrorists..

What absolute rubbish !
Are you going to 'shout' every time a new variant/virus comes along and blame everybody but yourself?
You are nothing but a panic-mongerer.

Extreme views are damaging on BOTH sides of the argument.
Bullying people will not convince them. If anything it will make them more stubborn.

 

[Debater Slayer]

[...] They are as bad as people supporting terrorists.

It seems to me that hyperbole and unnuanced, blanket demonization go against the very essence of rationalist and scientific thinking. Diluting the atrocity of the intentional, proactive malice involved in supporting terrorists with such a comparison is problematic at best.

Edit: The main issue with your statement is that not everyone who opposes vaccine mandates does so out of malice or a desire to support the killing of others, unlike those who support terrorists. This distinction can be crucial to acknowledge when trying to convince someone that vaccines are indeed safe and extremely useful in combating the pandemic.

 

[Twilight Hue]

What absolute rubbish !
Are you going to 'shout' every time a new variant/virus comes along and blame everybody but yourself?
You are nothing but a panic-mongerer.

Extreme views are damaging on BOTH sides of the argument.
Bullying people will not convince them. If anything it will make them more stubborn.

I feel you actually need a fire in your backyard in order to react.

The truth is, it's just not that big a threat for most people out there. It still is a solid fact most people will, not if, but will survive covid even if infected.

Sure it kills, just like heart disease and the flu so the choice is up to individuals imo. Not the collective.

 

[ecco]

Not receiving a vaccine is a far cry from all that to me.

Continuing to facilitate the spreading of the virus to thousands of Americans is a far cry from anything we have ever seen.