Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Exactly.
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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
It's spreading through vaccinated people too.
ecco
Veteran Member
It's easy to yell. How about specifying what, in my post, is rubbish. Maybe that's too hard for you to do.
When the vaccine is available and people are refusing to get it I, and many others, will blame the unvaccinated for continuing to spread the virus - because it's true.
Why do you believe citing statistics is panic-mongering?
On the other hand, people spreading lies about the vaccine are the ones engaging in fear-mongering.
Do you believe microchips get implanted in your arm when you are given the vaccine? Do you believe, without a shred of evidence beyond anecdotes, that the vaccine has killed people? There are people spreading this nonsense on RF. They are the fear-mongers.
What extreme views have I posited? Making vaccines mandatory is not an extreme view. Almost every parent in this country and indeed in the civilized world, has accepted the concept of vaccinating their children to save them from the effects of polio and measels. That's not extreme.
You have a strange concept of the term "bullying".
You may need a lesson from history.
The deadly polio epidemic and why it matters for coronavirus
And, yes, vaccines do work...The fear and uncertainty surrounding the coronavirus pandemic may feel new to many of us. But it is strangely familiar to those who lived through the polio epidemic of the last century.
Like a horror movie, throughout the first half of the 20th century, the polio virus arrived each summer, striking without warning. No one knew how polio was transmitted or what caused it. There were wild theories that the virus spread from imported bananas or stray cats. There was no known cure or vaccine.
For the next four decades, swimming pools and movie theaters closed during polio season for fear of this invisible enemy. Parents stopped sending their children to playgrounds or birthday parties for fear they would “catch polio.”
In the outbreak of 1916, health workers in New York City would physically remove children from their homes or playgrounds if they suspected they might be infected. Kids, who seemed to be targeted by the disease, were taken from their families and isolated in sanitariums.
In 1952, the number of polio cases in the U.S. peaked at 57,879, resulting in 3,145 deaths. Those who survived this highly infectious disease could end up with some form of paralysis, forcing them to use crutches, wheelchairs or to be put into an iron lung, a large tank respirator that would pull air in and out of the lungs, allowing them to breathe.
Ultimately, poliomyelitis was conquered in 1955 by a vaccine developed by Jonas Salk and his team at the University of Pittsburgh.
Like a horror movie, throughout the first half of the 20th century, the polio virus arrived each summer, striking without warning. No one knew how polio was transmitted or what caused it. There were wild theories that the virus spread from imported bananas or stray cats. There was no known cure or vaccine.
For the next four decades, swimming pools and movie theaters closed during polio season for fear of this invisible enemy. Parents stopped sending their children to playgrounds or birthday parties for fear they would “catch polio.”
In the outbreak of 1916, health workers in New York City would physically remove children from their homes or playgrounds if they suspected they might be infected. Kids, who seemed to be targeted by the disease, were taken from their families and isolated in sanitariums.
In 1952, the number of polio cases in the U.S. peaked at 57,879, resulting in 3,145 deaths. Those who survived this highly infectious disease could end up with some form of paralysis, forcing them to use crutches, wheelchairs or to be put into an iron lung, a large tank respirator that would pull air in and out of the lungs, allowing them to breathe.
Ultimately, poliomyelitis was conquered in 1955 by a vaccine developed by Jonas Salk and his team at the University of Pittsburgh.
Before a vaccine was available, polio caused more than 15,000 cases of paralysis a year in the U.S. It was the most feared disease of the 20th century. With the success of the polio vaccine, Jonas Salk, 39, became one of the most celebrated scientists in the world.
He refused a patent for his work, saying the vaccine belonged to the people and that to patent it would be like “patenting the Sun.” Leading drug manufacturers made the vaccine available, and more than 400 million doses were distributed between 1955 and 1962, reducing the cases of polio by 90%. By the end of the century, the polio scare had become a faint memory.
He refused a patent for his work, saying the vaccine belonged to the people and that to patent it would be like “patenting the Sun.” Leading drug manufacturers made the vaccine available, and more than 400 million doses were distributed between 1955 and 1962, reducing the cases of polio by 90%. By the end of the century, the polio scare had become a faint memory.
ecco
Veteran Member
A distinction without a difference.
What is the reason people rail against the need to get vaccinated? Is it willful ignorance of the facts surrounding COVID and the vaccine?
Is it willful ignorance brought about by religious beliefs?
I have seen interviews of people believing God will protect them. I have seen interviews of people saying "It's god's will". These people contribute to the spread of Covid and the ongoing number of deaths.
There are also people who believe the actions of ISIS, Taliban, et al, are justified for religious reasons. These people contribute to the spread of terrorist groups and the ongoing number of deaths.
ecco
Veteran Member
You (or someone who believes like you) has made that ridiculous comment before.
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Nothing ridiculous about it. It's a fact.
"The newly released report showing that vaccinated people can still be superspreaders drove the recent decision by the CDC to once again recommend masks for vaccinated people indoors where case counts are high or substantial.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Yes it is.
It's one thing to make wearing masks mandatory, and another to force people to be injected.
ecco
Veteran Member
Which "newly released report" are you referring to?
I wouldn't have to ask if you had taken the time to show your source.
Nevertheless, "It's spreading through vaccinated people too." was a ridiculous comment because it is accepted knowledge that vaccinated people can spread the disease if they get infected.
HOWEVER, the number of these events is minuscule compared to the number of infections caused by unvaccinated people. You trying to make the two sound equal is what makes your comment ridiculous nonsense.
FURTHERMORE, of the 1100 or so persons dying daily, the vast majority of them were unvaccinated.
You may know that Texas Governor, Abbot, is not a big fan of pushing vaccines. Yet, officially, Texas recognizes the problem:
my emphases
https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/covid19/data/cases-and-deaths-by-vaccination-status-11082021.pdf
1. From September 4 through October 1, 2021: • Unvaccinated people were 13 times more likely to become infected with COVID-19 than fully vaccinated people. • Unvaccinated people were 20 times more likely to experience COVID-19-associated death than fully vaccinated people. 2. Vaccination had a strong protective effect on infections and deaths among people of all ages. The protective impact on infections was consistent across adult age groups and even greater in people ages 12 to 17 years. The protective impact on COVID-19 deaths, which was high for all age groups, varied more widely. In the September time frame, unvaccinated people in their 40s were 55 times more likely to die from COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated people of the same age. Unvaccinated people aged 75 years and older were 12 times more likely to die than their vaccinated counterparts. 3. Overall, regardless of vaccination status, people in Texas were four to five times more likely to become infected with COVID-19 or suffer a COVID-19-associated death while the Delta variant was prevalent in Texas (August 2021) compared with a period before the Delta variant became prevalent (April 2021).
ecco
Veteran Member
It's too bad you didn't bother to read my entire comment...
See? Lots of lives have been saved because of vaccine mandates. How is it that you do not know this?
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
..and lots of lives have been saved without the use of force also !
ecco
Veteran Member
I see you could not address the following:
- Why do you believe citing statistics is panic-mongering?
- On the other hand, people spreading lies about the vaccine are the ones engaging in fear-mongering.
- Do you believe microchips get implanted in your arm when you are given the vaccine? Do you believe, without a shred of evidence beyond anecdotes, that the vaccine has killed people? There are people spreading this nonsense on RF. They are the fear-mongers.
ecco
Veteran Member
How many people died 9/11? Three thousand.
The vaccines were available to all Americans around June 2021 when there were 600,000 dead. Today there are 200,000 more dead.
These people died needlessly because they refused the vaccine and got infected primarily by people who also refused the vaccine?
200,000/3000=66 September 11 terror attacks.
This is domestic terrorism.
I am not "Diluting the atrocity of the intentional, proactive malice" of the terrorists. I am elevating the intentional, proactive malice of the anti-vaxxers to (and above) the level of the 9/11 hijackers.
ecco
Veteran Member
Yadda, yadda, yadda. Care to give some relevant examples.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Well, we've had vaccination requirements for travelling for many years already. It's nothing new, really.
For instance, between 1944 and 1981 the smallpox vaccine was mandatory for travel to many countries around the world. (This was lifted after smallpox was eradicated in 1980.)
Yellow Fever vaccinations are still mandatory for travel to certain countries.
Several countries require you to be vaccinated against polio before you can enter.
We've been dealing with this sort of thing for a long time now.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Sorry, this is Nazi-like how, exactly? Please be specific. And not rhetorically or hyperbolically either.
Such comparisons are a slap in the face to the 6 million people who died at the hands of the Nazis, imo.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
That's true.
However, a mandatory vaccine for all of a nation's population is not quite the same thing, I would have thought.
Particularly when it is a new vaccine.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
They also seem to be acutely more aware of their history in that area than most are, as teaching about the Holocaust is mandatory there. Most students are required to visit concentration camps so that nobody will forget what happened there.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Where did you crib that sentence from? Source please.
ecco
Veteran Member
You've never heard of polio?
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
You have to show your vaccine card to be part of society in many places now. You can't see the obvious similarities?