Girl cast a spell on teacher. Gets ex-spelled.

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Maybe instead of charged with a crime ... committed to an institution where they can receive the professional help they need?

 

[Revoltingest]

But that is what I just did, I just confessed to attempting to kill my teachers with my heat vision. And there is no statute of limitations on attempted murder. So I guess I could go to jail for this.

(I am not too worried though, I would just bend the bars and fly out).

Ever since the movie, Scanners, aired, I've tried to blow up people's heads telekinetically.
No success....yet.

 

[Marisa]

Do you have a link to the podcast. It sparked my interest to hear her views outside of articles.

Dogma Debate

She's on there frequently, but not a regular.

 

[Politesse]

Difference religious practices and views of what magic is. One is to be cursed by God rather than by the person casting a spell while the other is invoking a spell by internal power. Grant I am assuming lot when it comes to her religion. It really depends on if magic is based on external entities or if magic is a force within nature. Beside I think Christians would classify this as sorcery rather than an act of God as with a curse or pray.

However you are hitting on one of my points. Why should this type of magic be held at any level of the law and justice systems when there are religious texts which are just as bad. If her spell casting should be illegal so should any text with curses or misfortune placed upon others. Many of which target unbelievers or religious taboos. This would make the Quran and Bible illegal. Alternatively we could arrest either religious group in case they or their God curse someone.

That's quite a slippery slope you're constructing. Like saying "harassment is a crime, so we should ban books about harassment".

 

[Shad]

That's quite a slippery slope you're constructing. Like saying "harassment is a crime, so we should ban books about harassment".

Actually that post was intended to mock the idea that spelling casting should be considered an attempt or a premeditated assault on someone. I was pointing out the absurdity of such a view, not endorsing it

 

[Shad]

Dogma Debate

She's on there frequently, but not a regular.

Thank you.

 

[Politesse]

Actually that post was intended to mock the idea that spelling casting should be considered an attempt or a premeditated assault on someone. I was pointing out the absurdity of such a view, not endorsing it

Well, then it is a reducto ad absurdum rather than a slippery slope, but still unwarranted. We don't need to outlaw spells, or any particular religion, to see that publicly cursing someone is both intended and received as an act of aggression. I knew a child abuser some time back who used curses of the Christian variety freely alongside other methods of verbal abuse. Should she have been excused for half of the pattern of her abuse because it was couched in religious terms? Certainly, I think the victim, whom I knew well, was far more affected by the spiritual assaults than the emotional ones. Yet religious freedom makes those okay? I think not.

The girl in this case, obviously, is in a very different position. If anything, I quite suspect that the teacher was the abusive element if there was one, though who knows? The main point is that such public malevolent spell-work is an obvious sign that something is going badly, badly wrong in this classroom. Indeed, probably the whole school, as expulsion is an obviously disproportionate response. And it shouldn't be allowed to go unchecked. I would support treating the young woman's case with compassion, but not letting an attempted act of harm, however religious, go unremarked.

 

[Shad]

Well, then it is a reducto ad absurdum rather than a slippery slope, but still unwarranted. We don't need to outlaw spells, or any particular religion, to see that publicly cursing someone is both intended and received as an act of aggression. I knew a child abuser some time back who used curses of the Christian variety freely alongside other methods of verbal abuse. Should she have been excused for half of the pattern of her abuse because it was couched in religious terms? Certainly, I think the victim, whom I knew well, was far more affected by the spiritual assaults than the emotional ones. Yet religious freedom makes those okay? I think not.

I am point out how fallacious it is to hold intent and an action to the law which has no scientific qualification that can be tested to show any effect on the victim or from the perpetrator. Intent is only valid if it can result in an event or act which has a basis in reality not whatever subjective views people have regarding reality. Cursing someone has no observable effect. Spiritual is a made up term which has no basis in science nor law thus can not be a parameter within the justice system. It is just an nonsensical as my spiritual fist hit your face. Arrest me for spiritual assault.... Opening the current system to such ridiculous ideas which have yet to be proven is a vast of time and resources.

The girl in this case, obviously, is in a very different position. If anything, I quite suspect that the teacher was the abusive element if there was one, though who knows? The main point is that such public malevolent spell-work is an obvious sign that something is going badly, badly wrong in this classroom. Indeed, probably the whole school, as expulsion is an obviously disproportionate response. And it shouldn't be allowed to go unchecked. I would support treating the young woman's case with compassion, but not letting an attempted act of harm, however religious, go unremarked.

Yes it is a sign of many things. Even to the extent that religions have exemptions for acts which would be criminals or dangerous otherwise. However the root issue of religion is not something the justice system can resolve without become a police-state. It is an educational, parenting and indoctrination issue. Spells are nonsensical since it is not an act of harm which has any basis in any of the systems used to compile evidence in the justice system. It is people taking nonsense far too seriously.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

There is a huge difference between wanting something to happen and trying to make something happen. In both of your examples, at a minimum they should have some counseling, but it's not the same situation for each. They both want something bad to happen to their teacher, but the first person takes it a step further and tries to make it happen, so yes, I think it would be OK to expel that student and possible criminal indictment, assuming it could be proved.

Do you recall a student about 10 years ago that was expelled because they bought a toy called a "death note" which is based off of an anime. The basis is that if you write their name in the death note they will die. A child was expelled because he wrote names of his fellow classmates and the teachers. Should he have been expelled?

 

[Politesse]

Do you recall a student about 10 years ago that was expelled because they bought a toy called a "death note" which is based off of an anime. The basis is that if you write their name in the death note they will die. A child was expelled because he wrote names of his fellow classmates and the teachers. Should he have been expelled?

No, but nor should the incident have just been ignored. A death threat is a death threat, and even children do not make them for no reason.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

So thats how witches look like in the modern day

 

[Blastcat]

Roflmao!!!!! Shoulda seen this sooner. Ha ha ha..

Student Ex-"spelled" for casting a spell on teach…:

Lordy it worked !!

Dont punish the poor girl. Try to get her some psych help. If she keeps disrupting class, expell her for that. But for being crazy? No,
however, if someone is too crazy to take part in a class.. then what's the use of having her in class?

maybe being expelled might shake some sense into her.

Crazy behavior is just crazy behavior. There are norms.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Dont punish the poor girl. Try to get her some psych help. If she keeps disrupting class, expell her for that. But for being crazy? No,
however, if someone is too crazy to take part in a class.. then what's the use of having her in class?

maybe being expelled might shake some sense into her.

Crazy behavior is just crazy behavior. There are norms.

It's not the girl......=0]

 

[Monk Of Reason]

No, but nor should the incident have just been ignored. A death threat is a death threat, and even children do not make them for no reason.

I didn't say ignored. I think she should recieve some counsiling. Maybe even detention and perhaps someone ought to look into the teacher as well for good measure. But ex"spell" the child? No.

 

[Politesse]

I didn't say ignored. I think she should recieve some counsiling. Maybe even detention and perhaps someone ought to look into the teacher as well for good measure. But ex"spell" the child? No.

Well, I'm not advocating for expulsion...

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Well, I'm not advocating for expulsion...

I believe that was what freethinker had advocated which was my original problem.

 

[leibowde84]

I might have pulled her aside and asked her what kind of drugs she was on to think that casting a spell was reasonable in 2015, but expel her, umm, no.

Me and my buddy used to do the "zipper dance" every time we got tests handed back in math class in the 4th grade. I don't think casting a "spell" (which, to the best of my knowledge, has absolutely no effect) is any worse than that.

 

[freethinker44]

I believe that was what freethinker had advocated which was my original problem.

All I'm saying is that if someone believes magic or prayer works and they try to use that to cause harm, then they should be held accountable as if they physically tried to cause harm, because that's exactly what they're trying to do. Whether that means counseling, expulsion, criminal charges, or all of the above, that depends on the situation. It would be difficult to prove, but how is praying for someone to get hurt any different from trying to solicit a hit man? Because religion? I know a lot of really religious people and it's not a fantasy, or a game, or a toy to them. When they pray, in their minds they are affecting real, physical change in the world, so if they pray for something bad to happen it's not a thought crime, they actually expect something bad to happen.

 

[dust1n]

I just cast a spell of impotence over all RF members.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

All I'm saying is that if someone believes magic or prayer works and they try to use that to cause harm, then they should be held accountable as if they physically tried to cause harm, because that's exactly what they're trying to do. Whether that means counseling, expulsion, criminal charges, or all of the above, that depends on the situation. It would be difficult to prove, but how is praying for someone to get hurt any different from trying to solicit a hit man? Because religion? I know a lot of really religious people and it's not a fantasy, or a game, or a toy to them. When they pray, in their minds they are affecting real, physical change in the world, so if they pray for something bad to happen it's not a thought crime, they actually expect something bad to happen.

To what degree do we think she actually believed it would happen? And how could one prove that she actually believed it would happen?