Give Me Self Esteem

[anna.]

I'd rather have self-acceptance than self-esteem. Not that I have self-acceptance, I'd just rather have it than the other.

 

[Quagmire]

I think self-esteem is like money: your best bet is to have so much of it that you never have to think about it.

 

[YmirGF]

Or give me death.

No one can give another self-esteem. It's the gift you give yourself.

In the work that I do with men facing the criminal justice system and likely incarceration, low self-esteen is a common factor, across the board. I have yet to see a man who does not exhibit low self-esteem when they enter the program. Another commonality, almost across the board, is that of the man-child, or men who are quite juvenille in their approach to problem solving.

One of the things I baffle new guys with is, "When will you be done?" or "Are you done yet?" This normally prompts a slightly annoyed response of, "Done what? I'm just sitting here." I fix them in my gaze and say something like, "Are you done being unhappy? Well, are you? How is it working for you?" It's usually a genuine revelation to them when they finally understand being happy is a choice they both have control over and simply deserve.

I dunno, I could be wrong, but it does seem to work and generate impressive outcomes.

 

[Brian2]

Did you read anything I said in this thread besides my reply to you?

Yes and agreed mostly but forgot who said it.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

In the words of the Offspring...

I might be dumb but I'm not a dweeb
I'm just a sucker with no self esteem

Also in the words of the Offspring...

Ya ya ya ya ya

 

[RestlessSoul]

What's the difference between self-esteem and pride?

Pride is an empty promise, a phony cheque written by the ego; it can only bounce when we try to cash it.

Self-esteem is a manifestation of self-love, and all love has value.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I'd rather have self-acceptance than self-esteem. Not that I have self-acceptance, I'd just rather have it than the other.

Don't they amount to the same thing?

 

[John53]

Also in the words of the Offspring...

Ya ya ya ya ya

Give it to me baby

 

[Mock Turtle]

Don't they amount to the same thing?

Surely self-acceptance is more about knowing the positives and negatives within oneself, being realistic and accepting of such (probably knowing that this is true of so many too), whilst self-esteem is more about a positive appraisal of one's own character, abilities, and achievements - so as to provide a sense of confidence during any particular activity or scenario, especially novel ones - even if such appraisal might be inaccurate. So, more about positive feelings about oneself in the latter than simple acceptance, and where these feelings might be absent.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Surely self-acceptance is more about knowing the positives and negatives within oneself, being realistic and accepting of such (probably knowing that this is true of so many too), whilst self-esteem is more about a positive appraisal of one's own character, abilities, and achievements - so as to provide a sense of confidence during any particular activity or scenario, especially novel ones - even if such appraisal might be inaccurate. So, more about positive feelings about oneself in the latter than simple acceptance, and where these feelings might be absent.

I think self-esteem depends on us recognising and accepting our true character, including our flaws and weaknesses. If we deny our weaknesses we are lying to ourselves, and self esteem can't come from self deception imo. That would be pride, and prideful people, as @Ella S. wrote above (post #13), tend to have low self esteem.

 

[ChristineM]

Or give me death.

Self esteem can be knocked out of a person. In my case i was considering suicide to escape. So yes self esteem or death seems about right to me.

I've since recovered in bucket fulls.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I think self-esteem depends on us recognising and accepting our true character, including our flaws and weaknesses. If we deny our weaknesses we are lying to ourselves, and self esteem can't come from self deception imo. That would be pride, and prideful people, as @Ella S. wrote above (post #13), tend to have low self esteem.

Well I suspect that self-esteem comes after self-acceptance anyway, so one might have both or just one of these, and if both are positive (and realistic) then we are winners.

 

[anna.]

Don't they amount to the same thing?

No. Merriam-Webster defines them this way:

self-esteem: "a confidence and satisfaction in oneself"

self-acceptance: "the act or state of understanding and recognizing one's own abilities and limitations."

 

[RestlessSoul]

No. Merriam-Webster defines them this way:

self-esteem: "a confidence and satisfaction in oneself"

self-acceptance: "the act or state of understanding and recognizing one's own abilities and limitations."

I consider Merriam-Webster to be pretty much useless tbh.

The Cambridge Dictionary defines self-esteem as “belief or confidence in one’s own ability and value”, which puts it much closer in meaning to self-acceptance.

 

[anna.]

I consider Merriam-Webster to be pretty much useless tbh.

The Cambridge Dictionary defines self-esteem as “belief or confidence in one’s own ability and value”, which puts it much closer in meaning to self-acceptance.

Okay we'll go with your way. Cambridge dictionary definition of self-acceptance:

the ability to accept yourself as you are, including your faults.

Do you see that both dictionaries reference the idea of accepting one's faults or limitations? That's missing in the definition for self-esteem.

 

[Rival]

The Myth of Self-Esteem

We are programmed from an early age to nurture self-esteem. It may cause us to be more judgmental, both of ourselves and others–including the medical culture.

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[YmirGF]

I think self-esteem depends on us recognising and accepting our true character, including our flaws and weaknesses. If we deny our weaknesses we are lying to ourselves, and self esteem can't come from self deception imo. That would be pride, and prideful people, as @Ella S. wrote above (post #13), tend to have low self esteem.

I could be off base, but this sounds very familiar to what we mean in therapy about a person's self-awareness. It is amazing to watch guys, under intense verbal fire, not know how to react because they have become so disconnected from every day reality. This normally happens over a period of many years, so these patterns of behavior become deeply ingrained. They often see nothing wrong with their actions because of a deep-seated sense of entitlement accompanied by an unrecognized/misdirected rage. The sense of entitlement generally results from maladaptive reasoning due to early childhood trauma.

The rage is a bit more complicated but seems to be linked to very low self-esteem. For example, when I was in the spotlight, it took the group weeks to break through my defenses. Dave hounded me to get angry at my abusers. Then the shoe dropped. Dave stumbled onto the fact that I needed permission to get angry. My parents had beaten that ability to respond in a natural angry fashion out of me and it took a very long time for me to feel comfortable getting angry. Through maladaptive reasoning the young Paul created this seemingly happy Pollyanna personality where everything was always rainbows and unicorns. It was my coping mechanism and gave the illusion I was this happy kid.

The kick in the head is before you can help folks build their self-esteen/self-awareness it is essential to get to the bottom of what has or is causing their disconnect. That can be ... explosive.

 

[Ella S.]

The Myth of Self-Esteem

We are programmed from an early age to nurture self-esteem. It may cause us to be more judgmental, both of ourselves and others–including the medical culture.

www.psychologytoday.com

This article has given me a feast for thought. Thank you for sharing it.

 

[YmirGF]

The Myth of Self-Esteem

We are programmed from an early age to nurture self-esteem. It may cause us to be more judgmental, both of ourselves and others–including the medical culture.

www.psychologytoday.com

Agree with @Ella S. That is an interesting article. I may even take it down to group and read it.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Great question!

One can avoid giving another that privilege by realizing that each individual one allows into one's life will judge based on their own perspective which is a result of their own personal experiences. One has to make the conscious choice to either give another that privilege and accept these judgments into one's own reality or to understand that these judgments are merely another's perspective and not relevant to ones own reality.

I reserve this privilege only for myself.

How does taking others' constructive feedback on board fit into the above? For example, we all sometimes unintentionally do things that could upset others for understandable reasons, and we all have room for improvement throughout our lives. If we refuse to give weight to anyone else's perspective or judgment about our actions or words, aren't we limiting our potential for improvement and consideration of others (where applicable)?