Gnostic Atheism and its gods

[JonSL]

many of the early Church fathers were considered gnostics.

There writing has been preserved in The Philokalia.

 

[ChristineM]

many of the early Church fathers were considered gnostics.

There writing has been preserved in The Philokalia.

That doesn't make a gnostic atheist a church father.


And welcome to RF, pleased to meet you.

 

[JonSL]

That doesn't make a gnostic atheist a church father.


And welcome to RF, pleased to meet you.
View attachment 59401

I think that "gnostic atheism" is a modern term, from the social sciences. And not from religious history.

And that is ok.

I used to work for non-profit. Down the hall was an atheist group. When I would go out to get coffee for my office, I would often stop by there and see if they wanted me to pick up some for them.

We got along just fine.

My brother is an atheist. He is a Unitarian. I guess a lot, but not all of the Unitarians are atheists.

I have respect for people who have been disgusted by some of the history of the world's major religions.

I myself was not raised in that kind of horrible authoritarian religion.

 

[Sheldon]

Agnostic means it could be, but there is no evidence to say for certain.

Agnosticism is the belief that nothing is known, or can be known, about the nature or existence of a deity. That does not mean a deity could be possible, as that is a claim that would require knowledge.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Agnosticism is the belief that nothing is known, or can be known, about the nature or existence of a deity. That does not mean a deity could be possible, as that is a claim that would require knowledge.

That may be a better answer than the one i gave

 

[JonSL]

professional scientific inquiry always allows for the existence of variables not yet known.

And that means, that professional science does not believe in facts, per se, but the flow of scientific data and knowledge.

As far as religion is concerned, the proper scientific attitude would, at most, be that, according to science there is not yet enough proof of God's existence.

Every generation of science throws away past "facts" when new information is presented.

Science is far more fluid than commonly discussed.

Again, if you want detailed discussions of this, you can go to the Vatican science council.

The Vatican science council has hundreds of members who are winners of the Nobel Prize in science.

The are some of the elite of the scientific community.

And they believe in God. And they disagree with your assertions.

 

[JonSL]

Instead of having this discussion with me, why don't you find a science professor at a major university who believes in God...and have a direct discussion with them.

I can assure you that it will not be a confrontational debate and you will enjoy the experience.

My wife works at a major university. I have met some of her professors in science. They are all very nice folks.

Really...give it a shot, you will enjoy the experience and they will enjoy someone with interest in their ideas.

 

[Valjean]

The Charles Darwin has enough authority, that his "man from monkey" theory has won.

Huh?
The theory of evolution is not accepted on anyone's 'authority'.

I don't think I understand this "Gnostic Atheism." Would you explain it? How does it differ from other flavors of atheism?

 

[Audie]

Correct but there are some people, particularly funnimentalist who cannot comprehend or accept that people can have no believe in their god so they make up nonsense to massage their belief and make themselves feel better

I remember the moment I realized that
some people cannot comprehend atheism,
and think everyone, deep inside, really does believe!

This limited understanding and tendency to
make things up, claimjng of elevated personal
status and contemptuous attitude toward atheists usually
come from low ability / education individuals.

 

[Daniel Nicholson]

Your arguments and logic are nonsensical.

 

[syo]

In the world, theologians counted many thousands of gods. In what sense do "gnostic atheists" say there is no God?

Maya without brahman.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

In what sense do "gnostic atheists" say there is no God?

In the sense that there is no God. What that means is that regarding gods, there are none. Or in other words, the god count is zero, zero being the number of gods, or one fewer god than a monotheist believes exists, and several fewer than a polytheist believes exist. This means that gods are nonexistent, that if there were a foolproof test for gods, the test would yield a negative result. This would be because gods don't exist. That's the sense that they mean it.

For the knowledge of man is defined as what his god tells him

No. The knowledge of man is what he has discovered about himself, the world, and the relationship of the two. Gods, if they exist, tell us nothing. People claiming to speak for gods tell us what they believe gods are like. That is not knowledge about gods.

Of course, you might mean something other than what I mean by knowledge. Unjustified beliefs aren't included in my definition.

The God of Atheists tells them (lies to them) that there is no god.

There is no god of atheists, although I am considering calling reason my god just to communicate with those theists who cannot conceive of what atheism is, and never seem to get it that we have no gods. Why keep telling them otherwise if they can never learn that? It's called validation therapy when dealing with a child, the mentally ill, and the demented. You don't argue with them about their misunderstanding, because they can't hear or understand what they are told. You accept some of their reality in discussion, because you get better results than you would disagreeing with them.

If I do that, I should also probably also call secular humanism my religion.

I think you've been lied to, and by men. The tell you that there is a god, and you believe them uncritically.

Transgender woman is 100% sure, he is a woman. Because his god has told him, what he is a woman.

Disagree. She knows that she has Y chromosomes and male sexual apparatus. Her mind tells her that she feel like a woman, and wants to look, behave, and be treated like a woman. This shouldn't be an issue for you, but your religion makes it one, and you carry water for it.

Please prove it, that it is attack. If it is an attack, it has malicious intention. I feel no such.

Bigotry against atheists and transgendered people can be cold bigotry, in which no malice is experienced. There may even be a feeling of benevolence. It's the bigotry of lowered expectations, of seeing people as inferior and wanting to help them. Think of the father who wants to send his son to university or the military, but thinks his daughter should avoid both, because she doesn't have what it takes or shouldn't be concerning herself with such matters. He probably loves her, but his opinion of her is bigoted. It's misogynistic, yet he probably sees himself as protecting her or guiding her into a life that will make her happier.

That's you. You see both atheists and transgendered people as damaged, spiritually sick people, and you want to help save them from Satan. Is that best called an attack? Maybe not. But it is experienced as condemnation.

 

[firedragon]

There is no God in atheism, Gnostic atheist mean 100% certain there is no God or gods.

Agnostic means it could be, but there is no evidence to say for certain.

You keep mixing God in to Atheism i dont know why.

Qur'an says there are those who worship their own Havah as their ilah.

ilah means god/deity. Maybe you should consider this.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Qur'an says there are those who worship their own Havah as their ilah.

ilah means god/deity. Maybe you should consider this.

Absolutely, that was something I was not thinking of in the moment i wrote my reply
Thank you @firedragon

 

[Valjean]

I remember the moment I realized that
some people cannot comprehend atheism,
and think everyone, deep inside, really does believe!

This limited understanding and tendency to
make things up, claimjng of elevated personal
status and contemptuous attitude toward atheists usually
come from low ability / education individuals.

What's to comprehend? Atheism is our natural state. It's the epistemic default.
We're all born atheist. It's theism that's learned. A culture's mythology is a later add-on.

 

[Clara Tea]

In the world, theologians counted many thousands of gods. In what sense do "gnostic atheists" say there is no God?

Common opinion: "To be an atheist, it is enough to have a lack of belief in just one of the gods. If you do not believe in 3505 gods, and the other does not believe in 3506 gods, there is a difference only of half a percent."

But there is a non-zero difference. The difference in one God is very significant. It is not the question of one drop of water in the ocean. It is not water, but Almighty God. Just one God is well enough.

One should not be ashamed of own god: "Whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them" Luke 9:26. For the knowledge of man is defined as what his god tells him. The God of Atheists tells them (lies to them) that there is no god.

Everyone must admire you for being devout, and trying to help others find God. You are a good person, and it shows. However, your arguments need a little tweaking to convince others, and I'd like to help.

One percent of 3506 is 35.06. Half a percent is 17.53.

Your assertion that someone who believes in one God believes in half of a percent of all Gods is wrong. Don't worry, it's just a math error, and your sentiment is good.

Who says there are 3506 Gods? Website? Source?

Christians believe in different bible versions. Do different bible versions (that say different things) mean that they believe in different Gods? Or do all Christians believe in the same God?

The Christian and Muslim religions are spin-offs of the Jewish religion. Jesus was a Jew. Essentially, all Christians and Muslims therefore, must be a type of Jew (religiously speaking, not ethnically). I wonder if the antisemitic Christians and Muslims realize this?

Even modern Jews are not very ethnically Jewish, as their DNA proves. They are supposedly Semitic, just as Arabs are Semitic. Furthermore, Jews were not supposed to (by Jewish law) breed outside of their religion. That is, Jews were supposed to marry Jews. They somehow (perhaps rape) bred with populations around them. Now, instead of Jews looking like their close relatives, Arabs, they can look like anyone. There are Black Jews, blonde Jews, etc.

Since Christians and Muslims are a type of Jew, does that mean that they worship the same God? Many Christians and Muslims hate Jews, and vehemently deny that they believe in the Jewish God.

Since there are so many Gods, choosing the right God is very difficult, and there is a tiny percentage that we could make the right decision by deciding on the right God.

God is jealous and vengeful. That means that if we worship the wrong God (and odds are that we will pick the wrong one out of a choice of 3506 Gods), we might incur God's wrath.

I hope that I didn't offend you by discussing this.

 

[Clara Tea]

What's to comprehend? Atheism is our natural state. It's the epistemic default.
We're all born atheist. It's theism that's learned. A culture's mythology is a later add-on.

Theism is learned....then how do you explain a theist who turned into an atheist? Can't atheism also be learned?

 

[Valjean]

Qur'an says there are those who worship their own Havah as their ilah.

ilah means god/deity. Maybe you should consider this.

But C.S. Lewis' Out of the Silent Planet says that Earth has lost it's spiritual overlord; its Oyarsa, and has fallen into spiritual darkness. The people of Earth have no spiritual guides, eldila, and no Oyarsa managing things.

We're on our own. Maybe you should consider this.

 

[Clara Tea]

But C.S. Lewis' Out of the Silent Planet says that Earth has lost it's spiritual overlord; its Oyarsa, and has fallen into spiritual darkness. The people of Earth have no spiritual guides, eldila, and no Oyarsa managing things.

We're on our own. Maybe you should consider this.

I've been reading the bible. Oops....I've been reading the wrong book. Switching to Lewis.

 

[Valjean]

Theism is learned....then how do you explain a theist who turned into an atheist? Can't atheism also be learned?

Again, there's nothing to learn. Atheism's the automatic default when a theist looses his belief.
Pour the water out of a glass -- does "emptiness" have to be learned?