Gnostic Atheism and its gods

[Valjean]

I remember the moment I realized that
some people cannot comprehend atheism,
and think everyone, deep inside, really does believe!

This limited understanding and tendency to
make things up, claimjng of elevated personal
status and contemptuous attitude toward atheists usually
come from low ability / education individuals.

But there's literally "nothing" to comprehend. Atheism's a lack of belief

 

[QuestioningMind]

In the world, theologians counted many thousands of gods. In what sense do "gnostic atheists" say there is no God?

Common opinion: "To be an atheist, it is enough to have a lack of belief in just one of the gods. If you do not believe in 3505 gods, and the other does not believe in 3506 gods, there is a difference only of half a percent."

But there is a non-zero difference. The difference in one God is very significant. It is not the question of one drop of water in the ocean. It is not water, but Almighty God. Just one God is well enough.

One should not be ashamed of own god: "Whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them" Luke 9:26. For the knowledge of man is defined as what his god tells him. The God of Atheists tells them (lies to them) that there is no god.

What weak faith. When you are pretending so hard to believe in a god that you have to pretend that everyone else believes in a god as well. How sad.

 

[Clara Tea]

I remember the moment I realized that
some people cannot comprehend atheism,
and think everyone, deep inside, really does believe!

This limited understanding and tendency to
make things up, claiming of elevated personal
status and contemptuous attitude toward atheists usually
come from low ability / education individuals.

Everyone thinks that they have the right belief. If they didn't, they'd change belief.

The Christian God says "turn the other cheek" and "do unto others." Believe in this God or not, still the tenets of the religion (the peacefulness and kindness) are good.

Also, if you don't believe in the Christian God, someone will hit you, drop bombs on you, send you to Guantanamo for torture, put you on a Medievel torture rack, etc. They'll have to count rosary beads or say "hail Marys" afterwards, but they'll have extra points to get into heaven for converting you.

Apparently, Christians would rather fight for the rights of the National Rifle Association (which won W. Bush the election over war hero John Kerry, who hunted during the campaign), than campaigning for God.

I don't worry about low level intelligence and belief in God. I worry about those who don't follow God's peaceful purpose and don't even realize that they are sinning. Christians aren't really Christians if they don't follow Christ.

The religion is fine, as many religions are, but no one seems to follow the religion. They think that they do, but they don't.

Suppose that everyone believed in peace (following the tenets of "do unto others" and "turn the other cheek") but they didn't believe in any God. Wouldn't the world be peaceful?

Buddhists don't believe in God, they believe in a wise man named Buddha. They opposed the recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The pope asked W. Bush not to attack Iraq and Afghanistan, and issued a strongly written See to the United States demanding, in very strong words, that the US not attack.

 

[firedragon]

But C.S. Lewis' Out of the Silent Planet says that Earth has lost it's spiritual overlord; its Oyarsa, and has fallen into spiritual darkness. The people of Earth have no spiritual guides, eldila, and no Oyarsa managing things.

We're on our own. Maybe you should consider this.

So you worship C.S Lewis. And you are hardcore enough to butt into someone else's conversation to propagate your Lewis religion. I think you are way blinded by faith and your need to propagate your Lewis religion. Calm down and do your own propagation in your own conversation. I understand that you have this kind of dire need. Quench your thirst slowly.

 

[Clara Tea]

But there's literally "nothing" to comprehend. Atheism's a lack of belief

It takes intelligence to not believe, just as it takes intelligence to believe.

I wrote to the pope, and said that "if this email doesn't get to you, write back and tell me that it didn't."

 

[firedragon]

But there's literally "nothing" to comprehend. Atheism's a lack of belief

Well. I thought you believe in Lewis religion. Your God is Lewis. So how come you are saying this, which is wrong fundamentally anyway, and its opposing your own Lewis religion.

Pretty strange.

 

[Clara Tea]

So you worship C.S Lewis. And you are hardcore enough to butt into someone else's conversation to propagate your Lewis religion. I think you are way blinded by faith and your need to propagate your Lewis religion. Calm down and do your own propagation in your own conversation. I understand that you have this kind of dire need. Quench your thirst slowly.

Blaspheming Lewis?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Theism is learned....then how do you explain a theist who turned into an atheist? Can't atheism also be learned?

I was an atheist until about age 20, at which time I became a Christian. Ten years later, I returned to atheism. I didn't learn atheism as a child. I was merely never taught that there was a God, and was never given any religious instruction. At some point, I became aware of what theism was, and by contrast, what atheism is. I doubt that you would call that learning to be an atheist. I wouldn't.

But when I left religion, it was based on something I learned while in it. I converted while in the military, and my first pastor was a charismatic man capable of whipping up a degree of euphoria during services, which I interpreted as the Holy Spirit. After discharge, I returned home to California, and tried multiple congregations in my home state, all of which were lifeless. It was then that I realized that the feeling I had been experiencing back in Maryland wasn't the Holy Spirit, which ought to have followed me out to California. I entered the religion realizing that it didn't make sense, but agreed to suspend judgment and disbelief for a time to test out this new pair of shoes for fit. If the religion were authentic, and this God existed, it should start to make sense to me as I went along.

That never happened, and when the feeling that I mistook for God disappeared, the test was over. And so, I returned to atheism. I would say this could be called learned atheism. It wasn't taught to me by people or words, but by interpreting the evidence I just described - no Holy Spirit, and the doctrine remaining unbelievable even after years of suspended disbelief.

I'm frequently asked what God or religion did to me to make me turn my back on it. As one can see, nothing. I never had bad feelings about God when I believed, and no feelings about God as an atheist. There was no anger or rebellion on my part. I just stopped believing that this god existed.

 

[firedragon]

Blaspheming Lewis?

No no. He actually quoted C.S Lewis as God. He really believes in a God called Lewis.

 

[Nakosis]

In the world, theologians counted many thousands of gods. In what sense do "gnostic atheists" say there is no God?

Common opinion: "To be an atheist, it is enough to have a lack of belief in just one of the gods. If you do not believe in 3505 gods, and the other does not believe in 3506 gods, there is a difference only of half a percent."

But there is a non-zero difference. The difference in one God is very significant. It is not the question of one drop of water in the ocean. It is not water, but Almighty God. Just one God is well enough.

One should not be ashamed of own god: "Whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them" Luke 9:26. For the knowledge of man is defined as what his god tells him. The God of Atheists tells them (lies to them) that there is no god.

It has been a few thousand years that theists have been unable to prove the existence of God.
Gnostic atheists feel the time involved and the inability to provide proof of a God is proof that no God exists. It's time to close the issue.

 

[lukethethird]

It takes intelligence to not believe, just as it takes intelligence to believe.

I wrote to the pope, and said that "if this email doesn't get to you, write back and tell me that it didn't."

Religious beliefs appeal to our emotions and prejudices, no intellegence required.

 

[Audie]

But there's literally "nothing" to comprehend. Atheism's a lack of belief

That is not how i see it.
For lo, they doth incomprehend anyway,

Its that, imo, they are completely formed
by "god" as the foundation of all, that to
eliminate "god" as real, theres nothing left.

Far less imaginably possible than discovering
that all along, there are actually a- airests
who do not need to breathe, it is all in
imagination of airests and their droll books
about it that air even exists.

No doubt some would say,
" After you die you will find out
you were wrong."

In the sense that there is no God. What that means is that regarding gods, there are none. Or in other words, the god count is zero, zero being the number of gods, or one fewer god than a monotheist believes exists, and several fewer than a polytheist believes exist. This means that gods are nonexistent, that if there were a foolproof test for gods, the test would yield a negative result. This would be because gods don't exist. That's the sense that they mean it.



No. The knowledge of man is what he has discovered about himself, the world, and the relationship of the two. Gods, if they exist, tell us nothing. People claiming to speak for gods tell us what they believe gods are like. That is not knowledge about gods.

Of course, you might mean something other than what I mean by knowledge. Unjustified beliefs aren't included in my definition.



There is no god of atheists, although I am considering calling reason my god just to communicate with those theists who cannot conceive of what atheism is, and never seem to get it that we have no gods. Why keep telling them otherwise if they can never learn that? It's called validation therapy when dealing with a child, the mentally ill, and the demented. You don't argue with them about their misunderstanding, because they can't hear or understand what they are told. You accept some of their reality in discussion, because you get better results than you would disagreeing with them.

If I do that, I should also probably also call secular humanism my religion.

I think you've been lied to, and by men. The tell you that there is a god, and you believe them uncritically.



Disagree. She knows that she has Y chromosomes and male sexual apparatus. Her mind tells her that she feel like a woman, and wants to look, behave, and be treated like a woman. This shouldn't be an issue for you, but your religion makes it one, and you carry water for it.



Bigotry against atheists and transgendered people can be cold bigotry, in which no malice is experienced. There may even be a feeling of benevolence. It's the bigotry of lowered expectations, of seeing people as inferior and wanting to help them. Think of the father who wants to send his son to university or the military, but thinks his daughter should avoid both, because she doesn't have what it takes or shouldn't be concerning herself with such matters. He probably loves her, but his opinion of her is bigoted. It's misogynistic, yet he probably sees himself as protecting her or guiding her into a life that will make her happier.

That's you. You see both atheists and transgendered people as damaged, spiritually sick people, and you want to help save them from Satan. Is that best called an attack? Maybe not. But it is experienced as condemnation.

Those who go on about " sick, damaged"
etc others are being embarrassingly transparent in their projection of their
own issues onto others.

 

[Valjean]

No no. He actually quoted C.S Lewis as God. He really believes in a God called Lewis.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

I was comparing and contrasting the teachings from one book with the teachings of another. I was illustrating, by analogy, that one could quote the teachings from any book as fact, but without concrete evidence backing the assertions, none are authoritative.

How did you not get this?

firedragon said: ↑
Well. I thought you believe in Lewis religion. Your God is Lewis. So how come you are saying this, which is wrong fundamentally anyway, and its opposing your own Lewis religion.

Pretty strange.

You do realize that Lewis was a major Christian apologist and author? The Christian theme runs through most of his works.
C. S. Lewis - Wikipedia

 

[firedragon]

Where do you come up with this stuff?

I didnt come up with C.S Lewis. You did. So that's your religion mate. Lewis is your God.

 

[Valjean]

I didnt come up with C.S Lewis. You did. So that's your religion mate. Lewis is your God.

I don't think Lewis, as a Christian theologian, would approve of my worshiping him.

 

[firedragon]

I don't think Lewis, as a Christian theologian, would approve of my worshiping him.

Of course he won't.

 

[lukethethird]

But there's literally "nothing" to comprehend. Atheism's a lack of belief

That may very well be true but atheism is incomprehencible to the well indoctrinated. When you're a believer, everyone is a believer, including atheists. A lot of believers don't really see atheism as a lack of belief, they see it as more of a denial or a deeply held belief that there are no gods, as if the atheist has to try really hard to convince him herself that God doesn't exist, all the while knowing full well that it really does. It's a state of mind.