God’s Method of delivering messages, is it flawed?

[Trailblazer]

I'm only stating my belief. Sometimes, to me, you sound like you're being disrespectful.

That is your perception to which you are welcome.

Plus every time you say, "That's logic 101", that implies that we're don't get something that is so basic and so obvious anybody should understand it.

It is not what I say, it is how you interpret what I say. I am not implying anything about anyone else. I am just saying I consider it logic101.

But, if you don't see it that way it is your choice since you have free will. Oh, that's another thing you do. And implies, "Yes, everything you just said is wrong, but since you have free will, you can say anything you want... even if it is not true."

No, I am not implying that at all, that is what you believe I am implying, but you are wrong because you cannot read my mind..

Oh, and there is something about me having a "vendetta" against Baha'is? That was you wasn't it?

Yes it was, and that is what I thought at that time based upon what you were saying about the Baha'is. It is not as if I pulled that out of thin air. How is that disrespectful to express my own opinion?

 

[Trailblazer]

I thought you said you have never read it in its entirety? You have now? What do you think of the book of Nephilim?

I did not say that I have read the Bible in its entirety.

I said: I consider the Bible "in its entirety" to be evidence of God, evidence that God exists.

I do not NEED the Bible as evidence that God exists because I already know that God exists because of Baha'u'llah.
I never even read one page of the Bible till I was 60 years old. That is how much I need the Bible.

 

[Trailblazer]

So then we question all those things, and then comes the avoidance.

No, there does not come any avoidance, because I answer every question posed to me.

And if you ask me questions I do not have the answers to I tell you that.

 

[Trailblazer]

So if I assert that Baha'u'llah is from God? Then that would be a claim. But if I only "belief" he is from God, then that is not a claim.

That is correct.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Well, since we are talking about "flaws" in presenting the message... How have you been doing in getting the Baha'i message out in your community? When I was hanging out with Baha'is they had mostly firesides, then they tried "mass teaching" events. Most of them were on Native American reservations or were in Hispanic neighborhoods. Later, a Baha'i friend put together a Baha'i youth dance group that went out and performed.

Yes we had many such events in this community.

I see the flaw is only our own selves CG, it is unwise choices, but that is also part of this creation, so it is not really a flaw.

The Seven Valleys and Four Valleys by Baha'u'llah offers this deep mediation from the Valley of Knowledge.

".... The wayfarer in this Valley seeth in the fashionings of the True One nothing save clear providence, and at every moment saith: “No defect canst thou see in the creation of the God of Mercy: Repeat the gaze: Seest thou a single flaw?” He beholdeth justice in injustice, and in justice, grace. In ignorance he findeth many a knowledge hidden, and in knowledge a myriad wisdoms manifest. He breaketh the cage of the body and the passions, and consorteth with the people of the immortal realm. He mounteth on the ladders of inner truth and hasteneth to the heaven of inner significance. He rideth in the ark of “we shall show them our signs in and journeyeth over the sea of “until it become plain to them that (this Book) is the truth.” And if he meeteth with injustice he shall have patience, and if he cometh upon wrath he shall manifest love..... "

Regards Tony

 

[PearlSeeker]

But for those that didn't get a healing or get the help, what was the reason?

There could be many reasons. Maybe some conditions need more faith, maybe faith/mind healing has some limitations, maybe it's karma/lesson or preincarnative decision...

But in a religion like the Baha'i Faith the people are praying for peace and unity and to become better people. The more they really believe it and put it into practice the better. But, as with other religions, especially "organized" religions, too many people don't continue to change.

I believe the purpose of life(s) is to evolve spiritually, so it makes sense to pray for peace, unity, personal betterment... There's no point in praying for change and not trying to change but we still do it (sometimes myself included ).

 

[night912]

There is no claim.
I believe that what I believe is true.

Now tell me why I do not have a right to believe that.
It seems to bother some people. Why do you think it bothers them?
What other people believe doesn't bother me at all.

And this the problem. I never seen anybody in RF telling others that they don't have the right to believe in what they believe. So stop with all that BS.

You make claims about things being true and it's only when others have shown that those things are not true, that's when you start doing your BS games. You go with the usual, "it's just my belief," or "I never said it was, it's just what I believe," or "I never said that." And those times when you denied saying things and say, "show me where said that." After posting one of your post that clearly show that you in fact did say it, what do do? Do you acknowledge that perhaps it was a mistake, worded wrong or misunderstood by others? No, denied saying that and insult those people as if they are stupid enough to easily be deceived by your denial. And whenever you make direct insults, when pointed out, you denied doing such things or worse, you disrespect even more by saying such things like, "it wasn't meant towards you specifically."

It's disrespectful to acknowledge that you made an insult and act as if you're making an apology only to make another insult in your apology. Sooner or later, pretending to be a "good" person with deceptio by pretending to take responsibility for your actions while that very action is make another insult, will catch up to you. Saying something like, "that it wasn't meant towards you personally, it was toards atheists in general," right after I make a rebuttal to your argument, and have nothing relevant to what I just said, then it was directed to me. If it was towards atheists in general and I'm an atheist, then it is thrown at me using deception trying to hide it.

**mod edit**

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

The connection of the Manifestation with God is like that of the Sun in the perfect mirror. To us they areal we an know of the Sun and we can with our acceptance mirror them.

They are like a perfect polished mirror, so all we see reflected is the Attributes of the Holy Spirit, we can never know the Essence of their being, let alone know the Essence of God.

This subject is immense and years of study only touches on the potential we All have within.

Faith is about finding that potential and to start forming our spiritual limbs for the life to come. The only thing that holds us back from development, is the choices we make.

Regards Tony

Answer my question with a 1 visit or multiple. It doesn't take any teaching to know the difference.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Baha'u'llah did not say there was life on Mars. It is all in the interpretation and much of scripture is not literal, it is figurative. So when He said that every fixed star hath its own planets, and every planet its own creatures, whose number no man can compute, that was not necessarily to be interpreted literally but rather He was trying to convey that most planets have life on them. I'll bet that we read that in Arabic or Persian the word he used would not mean "every."

So life on every planet doesn't mean life on every planet. Got it!!!!

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Anarchy an not work, we must submit to a code of laws, that is logically evident. Look what happens when people think they are above the laws. At the same time if a law is not just, it must be changed in a peaceful way with negotiation.

Up to the current times, man has not had the capacity to negotiate without anger. I see times are changing and it can be done without resort to violence and war.

Baha'u'llah has offered we should adopt a world language which will be taught along with our mother tounge. As such we will retain a diverse identity and also be able to communicate across all Nations.

To an Aussie that will be 'Bloody Beaut Mate'!

Likewise the Nations will have their own rule, it may be even Kings and Queens come back. All of these will elect the world body who all will submit too.

Again big topic and many years of contemplation sees this is logical approach to world unity.

Regards Tony

So what happens when the one government is Nazis, ISIS, Religious Right, Putin, Trump, etc?

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Sorry I am aware of those passages and sumeriased my thoughts, here are a couple that I was considering.

This is to the religious divines who instruct others, but I also see it as a personal reflection and try to act upon it myself y becoming less heedless of what God has offered us;

".. In the eighth of the most holy lines, in the fifth Tablet of Paradise, He saith:
O YE THAT ARE LYING AS DEAD ON THE COUCH OF HEEDLESSNESS! Ages have passed and your precious lives are well-nigh ended, yet not a single breath of purity hath reached Our court of holiness from you. Though immersed in the ocean of misbelief, yet with your lips ye profess the one true faith of God. Him whom I abhor ye have loved, and of My foe ye have made a friend. Notwithstanding, ye walk on My earth complacent and self-satisfied, heedless that My earth is weary of you and everything 29 within it shunneth you. Were ye but to open your eyes, ye would, in truth, prefer a myriad griefs unto this joy, and would count death itself better than this life... "

This is an individual meditation.

"O BOND SLAVE OF THE WORLD! Many a dawn hath the breeze of My loving-kindness wafted over thee and found thee upon the bed of heedlessness fast asleep. Bewailing then thy plight it returned whence it came..."

Basically I see we are asleep when we are not considering God and we have awaken when we start looking for God.

Regards Tony

So what he wrote wasn't what he meant. Got it!!!!

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

I do not know what evidence you have but I never claimed that any of those Bible stories ever took place.
I only said I believe that Adam, Abraham, Noah, and Moses existed.

No, I am saying they are names of people in the Bible, people who existed in history.

Sorry, but that was not the reason He did not give dates. The only reason he ever predicted these things was as warnings to kings and rulers and religious leaders, warning them what would happen f people did not respond to His message. What He predicted was never intended to be prophecies that would prove who He was, but everything He predicted came to pass just as He warned.

I believe Bahaullah said they were prophets you now say men with these names existed I think they are modern names.

Manifestation of God - Wikipedia
There is no definitive list of Manifestations of God, but Baháʼu'lláh and ʻAbdu'l-Bahá referred to several personages as Manifestations; they include Adam, Noah, Krishna, Moses, Abraham, Zoroaster, Buddha, Jesus and Muhammad.[19] The Báb, as well as Baháʼu'lláh, were included in this definition.[19] Thus religious history is interpreted as a series of periods or "dispensations", where each Manifestation brings a somewhat broader and more advanced revelation, suited for the time and place in which it was expressed.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

That has never been my understanding and personally I have not seen that in the writings. I have read this book a few times and have an early copy of it. My understanding that world peace would have been established in the years 1900 to 2000. We are too close to it to see if that is the case, but with the League and then the United Nations, I see that is a firm foundation for our future peace, even if it again morphs into a different body with a different name. It is saiud the foundation of peace will be a world parliament.

As noted above 1957 is seen to be the establishment of the Baha'i Faith in all Nations. An amazing feat really.



As noted before, there is an issue when you mix what is not an official writing with a writing that was written after the talk from someones memory. Also it was translated on the spot before the pilgrim wrote it later from memory, there is no official text to refer back to. As such, pilgrim notes are a good reference for interest only. The Universal House of Justice has rightly remove any pilgrim note from official writings about the faith and the original copy of Baha'u'llah obviously contained some of this material.

The book does not hide this, the notes tell of the publication dates and what was done. Mine is a 1974 copy. First printed in 1923, 2nd impression in 1925, 1st revision 1940, 2nd 1952, then 1974.



This is Bible prophecy, each day for a year. It is widely accepted by the Christians this is correct and it was William Miller that first used to to predict 1844. Day-year principle - Wikipedia

Regards Tony

So writing days when they mean years or decades or centuries or never is the real truth. Got it!!!!

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

The hundred-dollar question is why you care what other people SEE about ME.

Do you really think anyone on this forum CARES about what other people are doing? Look around on those forum and you will clearly see that nobody gives a damn about anything but the subjects that they are discussing. They have in interest in pointing out the faults of other people. You are the only one here that I see doing that.

We care because we don't want a society only ruled by your set of rules. There are numerous examples of why that is wrong and dangerous.

If you want us to stop pointing out the flaws in your argument, then say it.

 

[Spirit of Light]

We care because we don't want a society only ruled by your set of rules. There are numerous examples of why that is wrong and dangerous.

If you want us to stop pointing out the flaws in your argument, then say it.

Stop the Harrasment of @Trailblazer and Baha’i, you have for 112 pages not had anything at all good to say, time to stop now.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Was Bahalullah doing anything outstanding when he predicted the rise and fall of empires? Considering all empires have risen and fallen it would seem not. His predictions were based on logic and were clear to everyone else to see.

Is his aims something the world wants? Yes ad No.

Universal peace is something most want, his recipe for getting it is flawed. Both by being unforced and unenforceable and leads to danger in the wrong hands.

Some f his claims are pure fantasy and the devouts attempts t tell you he wrote one thing but meant another shows why they believe he was wrong.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Was Bahalullah doing anything outstanding when he predicted the rise and fall of empires? Considering all empires have risen and fallen it would seem not. His predictions were based on logic and were clear to everyone else to see.

Is his aims something the world wants? Yes ad No.

Universal peace is something most want, his recipe for getting it is flawed. Both by being unforced and unenforceable and leads to danger in the wrong hands.

Some f his claims are pure fantasy and the devouts attempts t tell you he wrote one thing but meant another shows why they believe he was wrong.

You do not care about religion or its teaching, nor do you actually care what Bahaullah say in the Baha'i teaching, just because you disagree with what you think Baha'i teaching is, does not mean you have a right to harras anyone in RF the way you have done.

From you become a member of RF until today, i have yet to see anything positive.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Assuming there is a god sending us messages via selected people I ask. Is the method of sending messages flawed?

1. If you want the world to follow one god you don't send messages to nobodies in nothing tribes. You send messages to leaders of great empires.

2. You don't send messages to only one nobody, you send it to all the great leaders at once.

Don't claim an all-knowing, all-powerful, omnipotent, etc god can't do that. He's supposed to be god,

3. You send it in a form that can be easily explained, not in some way that only 1 nobody can understand and probably just dreamed. Even the devout are stumped on this.

The mess we are in now shows the confusion that results, charlatans, fake mystics, nobodies, different messages, etc all saying they are right.

So is there a god sending anything or a bunch of nobodies dreaming it up and trying to convince the world they are right? I'll leave that to the individual to decide. This is a criticism of all religions and not directed at one.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Assuming there is a god sending us messages via selected people I ask. Is the method of sending messages flawed?

1. If you want the world to follow one god you don't send messages to nobodies in nothing tribes. You send messages to leaders of great empires.

2. You don't send messages to only one nobody, you send it to all the great leaders at once.

Don't claim an all-knowing, all-powerful, omnipotent, etc god can't do that. He's supposed to be god,

3. You send it in a form that can be easily explained, not in some way that only 1 nobody can understand and probably just dreamed. Even the devout are stumped on this.

The mess we are in now shows the confusion that results, charlatans, fake mystics, nobodies, different messages, etc all saying they are right.

So is there a god sending anything or a bunch of nobodies dreaming it up and trying to convince the world they are right? I'll leave that to the individual to decide.

So now you telling God what to do?

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

You do not care about religion or its teaching, nor do you actually care what Bahaullah say in the Baha'i teaching, just because you disagree with what you think Baha'i teaching is, does not mean you have a right to harras anyone in RF the way you have done.

From you become a member of RF until today, i have yet to see anything positive.

I made my comment based on all religions.