God’s Method of delivering messages, is it flawed?

[PAUL MARKHAM]

That is absurd. I have told you many times that the claim to be a Messenger does not prove anything.

So god is using a system that his messengers can't prove they are the right messenger and allows for 1,000 of fake ones.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Seems kind of arbitrary.



3rd party. Maybe not to you, but to me, being the 4th person down the line is not a reliable position to be in.



I'm tempted to go through and correct, at least update Bahá’u’lláh message.

Bahaullah wanted a world without wars, murders, genocide, etc. He gave us plans to achieve that.

Unworkable plans.
Baha'is know they will not get any change without a new race of men.
They say they are in no hurry.
Some even claim they're not trying to convert more to their faith.

The problems we face today is not wars, murders, genocide. etc. The problems are far worse.

 

[Trailblazer]

So god is using a system that his messengers can't prove they are the right messenger and allows for 1,000 of fake ones.

The true Messengers can prove it, but not everyone will believe them.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

The true Messengers can prove it, but not everyone will believe them.

And therefore a flawed way of sending messages for 1,000s of years. If it were just a couple of religions your belief might be right. 10,000 different ones prove it's flawed.

 

[Trailblazer]

And therefore a flawed way of sending messages for 1,000s of years. If it were just a couple of religions your belief might be right. 10,000 different ones prove it's flawed.

10,000 different ones prove those are not real religions of God.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

10,000 different ones prove those are not real religions of God.

Or prove there is no god. Baha'is are in there somewhere.

 

[Spirit of Light]

And therefore a flawed way of sending messages for 1,000s of years. If it were just a couple of religions your belief might be right. 10,000 different ones prove it's flawed.

Where is your own proof in anything you say about religion? Everything you have said is based on your own hate for religion, right?

Dont you understand it is free to chose what ever religion we want to follow and study?
No matter how much you hate it, you dont get to say what others should or should not believe.

But you sre of course free to have no belief your self.

 

[CG Didymus]

I believe God does not want us to know 100% that he exist. Why? because life is a test, or a possibility for the soul to learn. If God showed himself to us so all human know he exist then the test or learning for the soul would be meaningless.

Do you believe that God did the things that the Bible says he did? Like flood the world, send fire from heaven, send the plagues, part the seas, write on walls, appear to Moses, strike people dead, speak from heave and raise Jesus from the dead?

 

[CG Didymus]

You claim not to know this god, then keep telling us what it can or can't do. Which one is it?

Evil people have been popping up for 10,000s of years no sign of it slowing down.

Oh, so the NT is wrong. Jesus doesn't come back and destroy all the evil people. Well that's good to know.

 

[CG Didymus]

There has to be a standard. Every religion that calls itself a religion is not from God, that is the standard.

It has to be revealed by a messenger, but some fake ones have fake messengers.

You really should get out more.

And aren't you the one that doesn't participate in your local Baha'i community? And I don't get out much?

The question is, why do you need to believe the stories in order to believe in God?
Why not put the Bible on the shelf where it belongs? It was revealed for another age and that age is over.

If the stories about God are fictional, why would the subject of those stories necessarily be real?

a new prophecy I had never seen.

"The views expressed in our content reflect individual perspectives and do not represent the official views of the Baha'i Faith." Subjective.

Whether Baha'is follow the Laws or not has nothing to do with whether Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God or not.

It is the continuation of a flawed system that has laws, supposedly from God, that no can or does follow. Even the best of people can't follow them perfectly and all the time. And a lot of people reject God and religion because of those laws, and saying that even the believers are being hypocritical and that they don't even follow the laws. Oh, and what is the Baha'i punishment for stealing or adultery? Cutting a thief's hand off? And stoning an adulterer? Or has God eased up on his punishments?

10,000 different ones prove those are not real religions of God.

Okay, some of those 10,000 religions call themselves "Christian", which ones are real?

 

[Trailblazer]

It has to be revealed by a messenger, but some fake ones have fake messengers.

That is true.

And aren't you the one that doesn't participate in your local Baha'i community? And I don't get out much?

I was referring to you getting out to see some other threads, not to getting out of the house. No, i do not get out to Baha'i activities, but that is a moot point since they are all on Zoom now.

If the stories about God are fictional, why would the subject of those stories necessarily be real?

Why wouldn't God be real? I mean why can't fictional stories be written about a real being, the fact that they are not accurate representations of the being notwithstanding.

It is the continuation of a flawed system that has laws, supposedly from God, that no can or does follow. Even the best of people can't follow them perfectly and all the time.

Nobody can follow them perfectly but so what? If people cannot follow the laws, they are the ones who are flawed, meaning imperfect, but the system is not flawed.

And a lot of people reject God and religion because of those laws, and saying that even the believers are being hypocritical and that they don't even follow the laws.

I do not know anyone who rejects the religion because the believers do not all follow the laws, although they might reject it because they think the laws are too strict for them to follow.

Oh, and what is the Baha'i punishment for stealing or adultery? Cutting a thief's hand off? And stoning an adulterer? Or has God eased up on his punishments?

Yes, God has eased up on the punishments. I do not know about stealing, but there is a fine for adultery.

Okay, some of those 10,000 religions call themselves "Christian", which ones are real?

All Christian religions are real religions because Jesus was a real Messenger of God.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

If the stories about God are fictional, why would the subject of those stories necessarily be real?

If there were a couple of gods it might be construed that 1 is real. When there are 100s of totally different ones it gets harder to believe any are true. Now some theists suggest their god wants to remain a mystery to us, after all the books and messengers telling us about their gods.

It is the continuation of a flawed system that has laws, supposedly from God, that no can or does follow. Even the best of people can't follow them perfectly and all the time. And a lot of people reject God and religion because of those laws, and saying that even the believers are being hypocritical and that they don't even follow the laws. Oh, and what is the Baha'i punishment for stealing or adultery? Cutting a thief's hand off? And stoning an adulterer? Or has God eased up on his punishments?

Maybre according to Baha'is there no longer is any crimes that need punishment or a talk will do the trick and at the last resort sanctions.

 

[ppp]

It IS an important message, but it is unrealistic to expect everyone to receive it.

If there were an omnipotent god who wanted everyone to receive a message, then it is not unrealistic to expect everyone to receive it. Because omnipotent.

 

[Vinayaka]

If there were an omnipotent god who wanted everyone to receive a message, then it is not unrealistic to expect everyone to receive it. Because omnipotent.

Isn't it obvious? Only 'special' people receive the message. The rest of us poor blokes suffer in stupidity.

 

[Trailblazer]

If there were an omnipotent god who wanted everyone to receive a message, then it is not unrealistic to expect everyone to receive it. Because omnipotent.

I cannot speak for God and say what God wants, but for the sake of argument let's say that God wants everyone to receive His message. Even if that was true, that does not mean that God would use His omnipotence to enure that everyone got His message, forcing it on people who do not even want it. Since humans have free will, it makes sense that God would allow the receipt of His message to be an individual decision.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Isn't it obvious? Only 'special' people receive the message. The rest of us poor blokes suffer in stupidity.

That is the nature of choice. The Bible talks about it being a choice of birth into a spiritual reality.

I am sure you would have much the same concepts, but in a different frame of reference.

Regards Tony

 

[ppp]

I cannot speak for God and say what God wants, but for the sake of argument let's say that God wants everyone to receive His message. Even if that was true, that does not mean that God would use His omnipotence to enure that everyone got His message, forcing it on people who do not even want it. Since humans have free will, it makes sense that God would allow the receipt of His message to be an individual decision.

Two questions:
If someone sends me an email that a mutual friend has died, are they "forcing" that message on me?
Are they taking away my free will?

 

[Trailblazer]

Two questions:
If someone sends me an email that a mutual friend has died, are they "forcing" that message on me?
Are they taking away my free will?

No and no.

 

[night912]

I cannot speak for God and say what God wants, but for the sake of argument let's say that God wants everyone to receive His message. Even if that was true, that does not mean that God would use His omnipotence to enure that everyone got His message, forcing it on people who do not even want it. Since humans have free will, it makes sense that God would allow the receipt of His message to be an individual decision.

Two questions:
If someone sends me an email that a mutual friend has died, are they "forcing" that message on me?
Are they taking away my free will?

No and no.

With your response, we can apply it to God and his message. God would not be forcing his message onto everyone and humanity can and will still have their free will, the decision to accept or reject God's message as being true.

 

[Trailblazer]

With your response, we can apply it to God and his message. God would not be forcing his message onto everyone and humanity can and will still have their free will, the decision to accept or reject God's message as being true.

If God does not need anyone to receive His message why would God use His omnipotence to ensure that everyone got His message?