God’s Method of delivering messages, is it flawed?

[CG Didymus]

No matter what a person chooses to call God, there is only One.

The Avatars or Messengers are many and have come in many Names. As such people can see there were many God's, its all a matter of perspective.

The Messengers come to show us there is but One God and man makes of the One God, many Idols.

Regards Tony

Here's something from somebody talking about the Buddha...

The concept of God as a unique and supreme transcendent being and creator of the world appears to be the work of Jewish scholars of the mid-1st millennium BCE. For example, the familiar creation story in Genesis probably was written in the 6th century BCE, according to Karen Armstrong's A History of God. Before that, Yahweh was just one tribal deity among many.

This development in Judaism was happening at about the same time as the life of the Buddha but in a different part of the world. The timeline suggests to me that it was unlikely any teachings about the Abrahamic God as is understood today ever reached the Buddha or the Buddha's disciples. If you were to have asked the Buddha if God exists, he might have said, "Who?"

Yes, there is a "complex pantheon of Brahmanic gods" (quoting another blogger) in the Pali texts. But the role they play in what we call "Buddhism" is very different from the role of gods in standard polytheistic religions.
Most of the time, in what we might call "classic" polytheism, gods are beings who have charge of specific things, such as the weather or harvests or war. If you wanted to have many children (or vice versa) you would make offerings to a fertility deity, for example.

But the Brahmanic gods of the Pali texts aren't in charge of anything connected to humans. It makes no difference whether one believes in them, or not. There is no point in praying to them because they rarely interact with humans and aren't interested in your prayers or offerings. They are characters who live in other realms and who have their own problems.
​

And another about the Creator in Buddhism...

Buddhism is a philosophy which does not include the belief in a creator deity, or any eternal divine personal being.[1][2][3] It teaches that there are divine beings or gods (see devas and Buddhist deities), heavens and rebirths in its doctrine of saṃsāra (cyclical rebirth), but it considers none of these gods as a creator or as being eternal (they just have very long lives).[4] In Buddhism, the devas are also trapped in the cycle of rebirth and are not necessarily virtuous. Thus while Buddhism includes multiple gods, its main focus is not on them.
​

So are these articles wrong? And what Baha'is say right?

Most of the time, in what we might call "classic" polytheism, gods are beings who have charge of specific things, such as the weather or harvests or war. If you wanted to have many children (or vice versa) you would make offerings to a fertility deity, for example.


But the Brahmanic gods of the Pali texts aren't in charge of anything connected to humans. It makes no difference whether one believes in them, or not. There is no point in praying to them because they rarely interact with humans and aren't interested in your prayers or offerings. They are characters who live in other realms and who have their own problems.​

 

[Trailblazer]

But we are getting so many messengers, you admit many are false, it's up to you to prove your messenger is from god.

I do not know how I could prove that to you.

Is he in communication with god?
Does god speak to him?
Or send other messengers to talk to them.

I believe that God spoke to Baha'u'llah through the Holy Spirit.

The following excerpt from a longer passage Baha'u'llah explained what happened to Him. Asleep on my couch is a metaphor for being caught by surprise when God spoke to Him

“O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 57

I do not know of He was in communication with God after that.
No, I do not believe any other Messengers were sent after Baha'u'llah.

The following photographic narrative on the life of Baha'u'llah explains how He received His revelation from God.

The Life of Baha'u'llah

A revelation from God

 

[Trailblazer]

But he writes the opposite, that believing in god will give you something that exist without the need of a god.

Yes, He does write that, and it will give us more than something, it will give us everything that really matters in life.

 

[Trailblazer]

So it's now up to you to prove your messenger is from your god and how they communicate.

Such a thing cannot be proven to other people... All we can do is prove it to ourselves.

 

[CG Didymus]

That all depends upon what you are reading.

Yes, there the Gods we believe in and the Gods of other people we know are false and only mythical. Like Gods that send lightning bolts from the sky to destroy the cities of the enemies of his people. The Gods who need blood sacrifices in order to be appeased. The Gods that impregnate human woman and have God/men children that are both human and divine.

Wait... I'm reading the Bible and the NT. Let me get a book on Greek mythology. Yes, that's better. These false Gods send lightening bolts from the heaven to kill people. They need sacrifices to be appeased. They do it with human woman and make children that are half human and half divine...

 

[Trailblazer]

So all religions based on the bible are false.

No, that is not what I said. I said that the men who wrote the Bible were not Messengers of God.

So how is Bahal getting his instructions from a god?

Directly from God through the Holy Spirit.

“O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 57

 

[CG Didymus]

If what Baha'u'llah offered is true, why have we not chosen unity and peace?

Yes, if he is for real. Not many don't want peace and unity, but they might not want to live under Baha'u'llah's rule to make it happen.

 

[Trailblazer]

Looks like all the issues that Baha'u'llah mentioned are all being discussed!

And that will continue until God's Purpose for humanity becomes a reality.

“God’s purpose is none other than to usher in, in ways He alone can bring about, and the full significance of which He alone can fathom, the Great, the Golden Age of a long-divided, a long-afflicted humanity. Its present state, indeed even its immediate future, is dark, distressingly dark. Its distant future, however, is radiant, gloriously radiant—so radiant that no eye can visualize it......”
The Promised Day is Come, p. 116

God’s Purpose

 

[CG Didymus]

I see the many God's that people see and have made of One God, I also see the trinity aspect that Christians built a doctrine upon our One God.

There is no person, or even a Messenger that can define God.

What we can do, given that there is now an answer given, is consider how One can be seen to be many in ways we may not yet have considered.

In the end what have we given up to know that One God is seen in our diversity of practice. It may just change our lives for the better, remove many built up predudices.

Regards Tony

Yes, built up prejudices... So, what we need to do to have unity of thought is reject all the false beliefs about God that have developed over the years. And now that we have the "true" answer", we can move on from here knowing that God will never communicate to us directly... God only speaks us through his messengers and Baha'u'llah is the current one... So we must drop everything we thought we knew about God and listen to him. Only one problem... Is he The True One? The Messiah? The Whatever that was promised from each and every other religion?

If not, is he, God forbid, a false Christ, a false Messiah? How are we going to know for sure? I think we better put him under the spiritual microscope and check him out. Any red flags that we should investigate? I'd say "yes". He's not Jesus. He did not go to Jerusalem and rule on the throne of David. And did he do what the promised one of all the other religions say he is supposed to do? I don't know. Baha'is say he did. Should I trust them or research it for myself and ask them lots and lots of questions?

 

[Trailblazer]

If not, is he, God forbid, a false Christ, a false Messiah? How are we going to know for sure? I think we better put him under the spiritual microscope and check him out. Any red flags that we should investigate?

In my opinion, you are checking out the wrong things, and seeing red flags where there are none, so you will never know if He was who He claimed to be...

But I cannot stop you from doing that because it is your own choice since you have free will...
All I can do is offer my opinion and my help, if you want it.

 

[CG Didymus]

That is why God sends a new Messenger in every age to renew religion.

In every "age"? So if he sent a messenger to one people in one part of the world in one "age", what good did that do the people that lived in another part of the world? Did he give a message to all people? I think Baha'is do say that nobody was left without guidance, then who were the many, many other messengers to the other people on Earth... like the Chinese? The people in Africa? The people in the Americas? The people in Europe?

The original storytellers lied and invented to make their stories more dramatic.

Yes, I think they made up the stories. The lie is that they presented it as the Truth.

I agree that many of the Bible stories are not true, but tat does not mean that the writers lied.

If not the writers, who did the lying?

Certainly, many religions were made up by men.

Any religion that was not revealed by God through a Messenger is made up,

And what if the religion claims they had a messenger, then we believe them? Couldn't it still be made up? The writers invented some great messenger that showed them the way and said, "Here is what you must do. Slit the necks of animals and burn them as an offering to the Gods? Would you believe that message?

They lied because they presented them as true with an intent to deceive.

Yes, they said God destroyed lots of people for not obeying him. Now here are his rules obey them or else.

You can't have it two ways.

Yes, Baha'is have figured out how to have it both ways. For example, Krishna is an incarnation of the God Vishnu, and he taught reincarnation. The Baha'i revised version... Krishna is a "manifestation" of the One God. The people misinterpreted there being multiple Gods and that Krishna is an incarnation of one of them. They also misinterpreted his teaching and thought that he taught that people reincarnate.

No, the men who write the Bible were not Messengers of God.

Then how trustworthy is what they wrote? Wouldn't that be like Baha'is Pilgrim's notes? In other words... just hearsay.

 

[CG Didymus]

I know that, but just because many of them are corrupt that does not mean they are all corrupt.

Okay, until Muhammad and Baha'u'llah, people wrote the message... then people interpreted the message. The result? Dead on, no errors, an infallible message from God? Or a little bit of corruption? You know just small things like the messenger made into a God and that he came back to life.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So we must drop everything we thought we knew about God and listen to him. Only one problem... Is he The True One? The Messiah? The Whatever that was promised from each and every other religion?

How do you think mank many came Baha'i, it was doing just that and doing the research using logic and reason.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Do you really expect people to believe in religion when it has given them so much evil?

Baha'is way of living is maybe a good one, I'm not steeped in knowledge of what he says, that doesn't mean he is from god.

Yeah, L. Ron has improved the lives of many. But who really believes that a Sci-Fi writer knows what he's talking about?

 

[CG Didymus]

I'm not even going to bother to read all those ramblings. He kicks off with making wild claims with no evidence. Making assumptions that if we do as he thinks we should we will be better off because god will reward us.

Reading the first few paragraphs it's obvious you can't prove he's a messenger from any god. The Kitáb-i-Íqán | Bahá’í Reference Library

How can you argue with this...

THE essence of these words is this: they that tread the path of faith, they that thirst for the wine of certitude, must cleanse themselves of all that is earthly—their ears from idle talk, their minds from vain imaginings, their hearts from worldly affections, their eyes from that which perisheth. They should put their trust in God, and, holding fast unto Him, follow in His way. Then will they be made worthy of the effulgent glories of the sun of divine knowledge and understanding, and become the recipients of a grace that is infinite and unseen, inasmuch as man can never hope to attain unto the knowledge of the All-Glorious, can never quaff from the stream of divine knowledge and wisdom, can never enter the abode of immortality, nor partake of the cup of divine nearness and favor, unless and until he ceases to regard the words and deeds of mortal men as a standard for the true understanding and recognition of God and His Prophets.​

I'm sure every Baha'i has done this... get their spiritual act together, have nothing else but God in their mind's and heart's.

 

[CG Didymus]

This educator must undeniably be perfect in every way and distinguished above all men.

And that's exactly why I keep asking why Baha'i say that Adam, Noah, Abraham and Moses were "manifestations" of God or "True Educators"? They weren't perfect. The story, the fictional story, shows how they made mistakes but, in general, turned to God. The God that threw lightning bolts from heaven and sent plagues to the Egyptians and parted the seas for the Hebrews. All very believable stuff, right? No, more like fictional/mythical stuff. So we have a fictional story with fictional things that the "real" God did? But he's not fictional also? A warrior God of an ancient people?

 

[Trailblazer]

In every "age"? So if he sent a messenger to one people in one part of the world in one "age", what good did that do the people that lived in another part of the world? Did he give a message to all people? I think Baha'is do say that nobody was left without guidance, then who were the many, many other messengers to the other people on Earth... like the Chinese? The people in Africa? The people in the Americas? The people in Europe?

God sends a universal Manifestation of God in every age, but God also sends prophets whose prophethood has been limited to a particular locality.

Question: How many kinds of divine Prophets are there?

Answer: There are three kinds of divine Prophets. One kind are the universal Manifestations, which are even as the sun. Through Their advent the world of existence is renewed, a new cycle is inaugurated, a new religion is revealed, souls are quickened to a new life, and East and West are flooded with light. These Souls are the universal Manifestations of God and have been sent forth to the entire world and the generality of mankind.

Another kind of Prophets are followers and promulgators, not leaders and law-givers, but they are nonetheless the recipients of the hidden inspirations of God. Yet another kind are Prophets Whose prophethood has been limited to a particular locality. But the universal Manifestations are all-encompassing: They are like the root, and all others are as the branches; they are like the sun, and all others are as the moon and the stars.

The Three Kinds of Prophets

Yes, I think they made up the stories. The lie is that they presented it as the Truth.

If not the writers, who did the lying?

We do not know if the authors lied because we do not know if their intent was to deceive.
I highly doubt that was the case so there was no doubt another motive that you are unaware of.

lie

1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
3. an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood.

Definition of lie | Dictionary.com

And what if the religion claims they had a messenger, then we believe them? Couldn't it still be made up? The writers invented some great messenger that showed them the way and said, "Here is what you must do. Slit the necks of animals and burn them as an offering to the Gods? Would you believe that message?

No we do not believe claims, we have to try to verify them.

Yes, Baha'is have figured out how to have it both ways. For example, Krishna is an incarnation of the God Vishnu, and he taught reincarnation. The Baha'i revised version... Krishna is a "manifestation" of the One God. The people misinterpreted there being multiple Gods and that Krishna is an incarnation of one of them. They also misinterpreted his teaching and thought that he taught that people reincarnate.

There is no reason to believe that the Baha’is have revised anything. What was there to revise? We have NO original scriptures from those older religions and whatever we have has been misinterpreted.

Then how trustworthy is what they wrote? Wouldn't that be like Baha'is Pilgrim's notes? In other words... just hearsay.

It is not quite the same because the Bible writers were inspired by the Holy Spirit. However, that is not the same as if it had been written by Jesus or Moses because humans are not inerrant.

 

[CG Didymus]

That book is not about proving Baha'u'llah, it is about proving all the Messengers up until and including the Bab. It was the Bab that left no doubt that the world was in the time of great change, from a the Message He gave change was inevitable and swift, behind the Message was a promise of One greater then himself.

It is not my loss, if you choose not to consider the contents.

Regards Tony

Yeah, and no loss for God and Baha'u'llah. They tried to show us. We are just too flawed to listen. Now God will have to darn near destroy the Earth again to make us see that he is real. Wait, isn't that kind of proving that he is real to all people? But causing bad things to happen us all, including some Baha'is probably, is the best why to "prove" that he is real? He couldn't just say something? I mean directly, not through a go-between.

 

[CG Didymus]

In my opinion, you are checking out the wrong things, and seeing red flags where there are none, so you will never know if He was who He claimed to be...

But I cannot stop you from doing that because it is your own choice since you have free will...
All I can do is offer my opinion and my help, if you want it.

Yes, help me. What proof do you have that he is the True Messiah, the return of Buddha, the return of Jesus, the return of all the others? But you know, I have opinions too. I think you should, no matter how hard its going to be for you, is start interacting with your Baha'i community. If we are going to apply the teachings of the Baha'i Faith, it seems to me that a Baha'i should become active and participate in their local community.

 

[CG Didymus]

How do you think mank many came Baha'i, it was doing just that and doing the research using logic and reason.

Regards Tony

Yes, I just need more research and more answers than you did.