God’s Method of delivering messages, is it flawed?

[night912]

No, I'm blaming the false messengers who are conning people into believing there is a god.

Islam can't even decide who took over from Mohamed after his death. So no preaching from you about religious wars. Those wars resulted in a lot of deaths.

You know i live in a free country, so i am sorry, but you are not able to tell me what i can or can not do. What i should or should not believe in.

Actually, you(I'm assuming both of you) living in a free country, is exactly the reason why he can tell you what you what you can or cannot do, or what you should or should not believe in, and vice versa. It is this freedom that separates free countries from those that are not, and why people have the privilege to believe in whatever they want, whether it's religion, politics etc(even racial prejudice) without the fear of being disciplined for having their beliefs.

Spoiler: If you think that you're an idiot, CLICK HERE.

Hahaha.
You actually clicked it? This confirms your uncertainty. What an idiot.

Seriously though, I only did this to see which idiot(s) will make a comment about what I said. Those are the ones who does not value freedom and are willing to take freedom away because of different beliefs.

Everyone should have the freedom to believe in what they want and say what they want. Freedom disappears once those beliefs are act upon

If some people have more "freedom" than others, then it is not freedom.

Just as i am in no need to convert you to suddenly believe in a God.
But it is strange that you seem to be telling everybody what they can or can not believe because you your self do not believe.

So are you saying that freedom is the one thing that is prevents you from converting others to have the same beliefs as you?

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

What has become blatantly clear is theists losing their free will. Instead of asking "can this be true" they look to what their religion is telling them and follow whatever that says. Be it evolution, sex, morals, space, biblical, false prophecies, false prophets, history, science, family, etc.

Others and I have given them scientific, historical, archaeological proof their prophets are wrong. But they won't use their free will to think and come to a conclusion their prophet/religion doesn't tell them to.

This is dangerous. Look at history and we see the mistakes made by people following blindly what religious leaders tell them to believe. Witches trials based on the garb of Ale Wives, wars, religious persecution, genocide and even today Al Queda, ISIS, Boko Harem, Religious Right, etc.

Cue theists to tell us they investigate everything and always come to the conclusion their religion tells them to. Depending on their commitment to the religion.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

No, I have evidence and I researched the evidence, and then I believed.
Nobody TOLD me to believe.

Where is your evidence for life on every planet?
Where is your evidence for Bahaullah getting a message from god?
Where is your evidence for evolution being started by god?
Where is your evidence that menstruation needs you to not pray as much and repeat 95 times a day between one noon and the next, the verse “Glorified be God, the Lord of Splendour and Beauty”.?
Where is your evidence for Adam, Noah, Moses, Abraham being messengers from god?
Where is your evidence of anyong being a messenger?

You say I have evidence when you should say I believe

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Actually, you(I'm assuming both of you) living in a free country, is exactly the reason why he can tell you what you what you can or cannot do, or what you should or should not believe in, and vice versa. It is this freedom that separates free countries from those that are not, and why people have the privilege to believe in whatever they want, whether it's religion, politics etc(even racial prejudice) without the fear of being disciplined for having their beliefs.

In the West, we had to fight for our freedoms. Not so long ago we were punished for believing the wrong thing. This is the reason I resist theists, they would take our freedoms away if they were given power. Watch The Handmaids Tale.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Neither are real

What do you mean not real? Trance state (rapture) is real. Mind creating changes in body (that are beneficial for health) is real (faith healing, placebo effect).

 

[Spirit of Light]

Actually, you(I'm assuming both of you) living in a free country, is exactly the reason why he can tell you what you what you can or cannot do, or what you should or should not believe in, and vice versa. It is this freedom that separates free countries from those that are not, and why people have the privilege to believe in whatever they want, whether it's religion, politics etc(even racial prejudice) without the fear of being disciplined for having their beliefs.

Spoiler: If you think that you're an idiot, CLICK HERE.

Hahaha.
You actually clicked it? This confirms your uncertainty. What an idiot.

Seriously though, I only did this to see which idiot(s) will make a comment about what I said. Those are the ones who does not value freedom and are willing to take freedom away because of different beliefs.

Everyone should have the freedom to believe in what they want and say what they want. Freedom disappears once those beliefs are act upon

If some people have more "freedom" than others, then it is not freedom.

So are you saying that freedom is the one thing that is prevents you from converting others to have the same beliefs as you?

No other human being can tell me what i can or can not believe, only Allah can tell me what is right or wrong to believe or do.
Personally i find freedom within the religion not in other things

I did of course not click your link.

I have no need to convert others, if they find Islam interesting, they will keep study it them selvs.

 

[night912]

TB said the downfall of America. Now we see it's America has a great destiny and will lead the peace process. Two completely different things.

Warnings from clerics that if America doesn't change it will face a crisis is just their opinions. I predict that within this Century China will become the largest superpower and that's a scary probability. Who would you prefer at the top, America or China?

What he said about America is not significant. It's looking at current events and saying that two outcomes are possible, either good or bad for the nation.

So you have a non-white non-westerner living during the time when worldwide slavery of the major super powers, are on decline. For America, slavery is to the point where it's being judged by its own citizens and the beginning of the government's decision to abolish slavery. Laws are put into place, making international slave trading illegal, and restricting slavery to certain area of the country.

Then obviously the abolition of slavery, first by the British Empire, then America. Now you have a non-white non-westerner who experienced fist hand oppression by the "majority" in power, talking about an upcoming global superpower having close to a third of its population being former black slaves that was recently freed. If you look at it like that, it's not hard to predict what the future holds for that country. There will be racial struggles, and its people have two choices, either continue the racial conflicts or working together to achieve a peaceful outcome.

His followers of today like to paint a picture of people in those days be incapable of seeing white and colored people coming together as one. They like to say that for us living in the present, a peaceful outcome having different races seeing each other as one people of a nation. But I say, it's exactly what the a lot of young Americans of those days are thinking. We cannot look past the fact that this was during the time of Frederick Douglass. It is the era when many black people saw and realized that it is possible for them to also live the American dream, owning your own property, business and have some say in the direction that the country can go, comparing to less than 25 years earlier they were slaves.

So yea. I don't see anything special about his predictions of the future of America.

 

[Muffled]

I believe there is evidence that He had the knowledge of God just as Jesus did.
Baha'u'llah and Jesus are not in competition, they are both the same Spirit of God.

I believe I haven't seen any evidence yet and believe there is already some evidence to the contrary.

 

[Muffled]

Agreed. Religions are full of irrational rules.

I don't believe rules that god gives us are irrational. We just may not know the reasons.

 

[Muffled]

So believing science proves the bible is wrong makes not believing in religion illogical!!! Explain.

Most people don't recognise Bahaullah as a messenger. His inability to make sensible predictions only proves it. Answer my post about messages from god, imagined, dreamed, cons or nothing sent.

Manmade religions.

I believe relying on science is a weak reed that won't stand up to scrutiny.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

I believe relying on science is a weak reed that won't stand up to scrutiny.

So l0ng as you say "I believe" without presenting reasons we can see that won't stand up to scrutiny.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

What do you mean not real? Trance state (rapture) is real. Mind creating changes in body (that are beneficial for health) is real (faith healing, placebo effect).

I assumed he was referring to this;

The rapture is an eschatological concept held by some Christians, particularly within branches of American evangelicalism, consisting of an end-time event when all Christian believers who are alive, along with resurrected believers, will rise "in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air."

Study what I actually said about Faith Healing. There are more deaths caused by faith healings than cures. Referring to the people who believe god will cure them or a placebo. It would be pointless if placebos saved more than they killed.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

You cannot PROVE that any of that is wrong.... You can only BELIEVE it is wrong.

Just because there are no records that does not mean a Prophet/Messenger did not exist.

That is YOUR problem..

The Flood never happened as described in the bible. Moses, Jews in Egypt, never existed, taking over Caanan an Egyptian province at the time I gave my evidence.

You later claim to have evidence of all his prophecies, give us your evidence then that I'm wrong.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Did you verify this by checking your sources, or did you just gullibly believe it.

This is gross calumny. Baha'u'llah never said any of what you quoted. It comes from Muslims who are trying to discredit Baha'u'llah. I suggest you look at your sources before you post.

Seems you were right. I will delete the post. It was late last night when I found that page and took it on face value. I humbly apologise.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Did you verify this by checking your sources, or did you just gullibly believe it.

This is gross calumny. Baha'u'llah never said any of what you quoted. It comes from Muslims who are trying to discredit Baha'u'llah. I suggest you look at your sources before you post.

What about the rest of the post?

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

I have only found, when I have read a Message, that a Messenger proven they have given from God, that the Message shows us good advice on how to find peace. I have also found the same message records the results of what happens to us when we choose not to follow that goos advice.

I see a True Messenger has suffered greatly from the men of the time, men that decided their way was better than what God had offerd via the Messenger. So that is actually a sign of a True Messenger. Sad but true.

Regards Tony

So messengers are in constant contact with god to get all the messages right. Or so you believe.

I believe one dream doesn't create 1400 messages. I believe A true messenger without the tools to convert most he meets isn't very good. The fact that the authorities weren't convinced is evidence of the lack of tools.

Only Mohammed was successful in getting his message across because he had an army behind him.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

No other human being can tell me what i can or can not believe, only Allah can tell me what is right or wrong to believe or do.
Personally i find freedom within the religion not in other things

I did of course not click your link.

I have no need to convert others, if they find Islam interesting, they will keep study it them selvs.

Thanks for backing up my post. I would have put you in the least likely to follow the exact word of Mohammed. Allah never spoke to you.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

What he said about America is not significant. It's looking at current events and saying that two outcomes are possible, either good or bad for the nation.

So you have a non-white non-westerner living during the time when worldwide slavery of the major super powers, are on decline. For America, slavery is to the point where it's being judged by its own citizens and the beginning of the government's decision to abolish slavery. Laws are put into place, making international slave trading illegal, and restricting slavery to certain area of the country.

Then obviously the abolition of slavery, first by the British Empire, then America. Now you have a non-white non-westerner who experienced fist hand oppression by the "majority" in power, talking about an upcoming global superpower having close to a third of its population being former black slaves that was recently freed. If you look at it like that, it's not hard to predict what the future holds for that country. There will be racial struggles, and its people have two choices, either continue the racial conflicts or working together to achieve a peaceful outcome.

His followers of today like to paint a picture of people in those days be incapable of seeing white and colored people coming together as one. They like to say that for us living in the present, a peaceful outcome having different races seeing each other as one people of a nation. But I say, it's exactly what the a lot of young Americans of those days are thinking. We cannot look past the fact that this was during the time of Frederick Douglass. It is the era when many black people saw and realized that it is possible for them to also live the American dream, owning your own property, business and have some say in the direction that the country can go, comparing to less than 25 years earlier they were slaves.

So yea. I don't see anything special about his predictions of the future of America.

The way Americans treat African Americans, on the whole, is poor. Also the Latin Americans.

The way they want to restrict entry to foreigners is only common sense.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Thanks for backing up my post. I would have put you in the least likely to follow the exact word of Mohammed. Allah never spoke to you.

And how do you know that? Stop your judgmental toward religious people

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

The main goals that Bahaullah set are unachievable without a big army to make sure no rebels.

The overall aim is to achieve peace in a framework of justice. The principal teaching of Baha’u’llah is the oneness of humankind and his purpose is to achieve this unity by encompassing human diversity rather than imposing uniformity.

Even his brother tried to kill him. So he couldn't convince his brother.

The problem is here.

Oneness of the Human Race
The Baha'i Faith upholds the unity of God, recognizes the unity of His Prophets, and inculcates the principle of the oneness and wholeness of the entire human race. It proclaims the necessity and the inevitability of the unification of mankind, asserts that it is gradually approaching, and claims that nothing short of the transmuting spirit of God, working through His chosen Mouthpiece in this day, can ultimately succeed in bringing it about. It, moreover, enjoins upon its followers the primary duty of an unfettered search after truth, condemns all manner of prejudice and superstition, declares the purpose of religion to be the promotion of amity and concord, proclaims its essential harmony with science, and recognizes it as the foremost agency for the pacification and the orderly progress of human society. It unequivocally maintains the principle of equal rights, opportunities and privileges for men and women, insists on compulsory education, eliminates extremes of poverty and wealth, abolishes the institution of priesthood, prohibits slavery, asceticism, mendicancy and monasticism, prescribes monogamy, discourages divorce, emphasizes the necessity of strict obedience to one's government, exalts any work performed in the spirit of service to the level of worship, urges either the creation or the selection of an auxiliary international language, and delineates the outlines of those institutions that must establish and perpetuate the general peace of mankind.

Is this a recipe for us? Are we all to believe the same, follow government whatever it says or does, speak the same language, etc. Imagine this with the power of a ruling council. What happens when some say NO!