God’s Method of delivering messages, is it flawed?

[CG Didymus]

As a matter of logic, it does not matter if there are many charlatans because that does not mean there cannot be true Messengers of God, not anymore that junk cars in a junkyard proves there are no new cars in the new car lot down the street.

Some fakes are easily shown to be con men. Others aren't. That's why I bring up the Mormons as an example. Good people, doing good things. But the Book of Mormon? Who's, other than Mormons, believes it is true? So was Joseph Smith a con man and the Book of Mormon something he made up? But how different is it than the wild stories found in the Bible? You and I and atheists don't believe those stories literally happened, yet the Book has the power to change lives? Why? Because people believe it is true. Would you follow the "commands" of God found in the Bible? Like offering God an animal sacrifice? I would hope not. But that is what the God you say you believe in told the Israelites. So, for me, there's a little bit of falseness and very troubling beliefs in many of the religions that Baha'is say are true, God revealed religions. And what are Baha'is going to say about that? That people added those things in? Maybe, but it is part of the Bible. So then what? Part of the Bible is true and parts are not true? Or, the Baha'is way of saying that, that some things are literal and some things symbolic.

Anyway, for me it is much easier to think that people made up all of it, the religion and the Gods that go with it. And if people did make up their religions and their Gods, then, of course, there are flaws.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The documents are preserved and were signed and sealed by Baha'u'llah. They are available.
All translation by Shoghi Effendi can be reviewed in the future, but at the same time there was no one better than Shoghi Effendi to translate, as he was also in tune to what Baha'u'llah offered.

Only Allah knows what Bahaollah had written, how it has been translated (taketh, giveth, boundeth, etc.), what has come out and what has been kept back. Since it was all in the family. I neither believe in existence of Allah nor in Bahaollah being an avatara of Allah (manifestation), you are welcome to take it the way you want. Without evidence, I consider all these things to be fake.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Only Allah knows what Bahaollah had written, how it has been translated (taketh, giveth, boundeth, etc.), what has come out and what has been kept back. Since it was all in the family. I neither believe in existence of Allah nor in Bahaollah being an avatara of Allah (manifestation), you are welcome to take it the way you want. Without evidence, I consider all these things to be fake.

Here is an example of the evidence on display at the British Museum.

https://news.bahai.org/story/1358/

The written word is its own evidence.

That you do not beleive in God, nor Avatars, does not mean the evidence does not exist.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

With Hinduism we have a lot of things that don't fit into the Baha'i progression very well. One is that Krishna didn't "found" Hinduism. Another is that Hindus say Krishna was the 8th incarnation of Vishnu. Did one of them "found" Hinduism? Do Baha'is recognize them? But then, are Zoroaster, Adam, Noah, Abraham, and Moses recognized by Hinduism as being "avatars"?

Hindus say a lot of things and they do not agree. Hinduism has been so changed over time that I do not think we can know what its origins were. I do not know what the official Baha'i position is, as I recall reading on Baha'i Library online, Baha'u'llah did not say anything about Hinduism.

I do not think it matters what Hinduism accepts; since they do not believe in progressive revelation they probably do not accept all the Messengers of God, especially those on the Abrahamic line.

 

[Trailblazer]

Only Allah knows what Bahaollah had written, how it has been translated (taketh, giveth, boundeth, etc.), what has come out and what has been kept back.

Those who know Arabic and Persian can read the original Writings of Baha'u'llah, so they can know exactly what He wrote.

 

[Trailblazer]

Anyway, for me it is much easier to think that people made up all of it, the religion and the Gods that go with it. And if people did make up their religions and their Gods, then, of course, there are flaws.

Yo are free to believe that if it makes more sense to you. I can accept the older scriptures for what they are, take what I like and leave the rest.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Those who know Arabic and Persian can read the original Writings of Baha'u'llah, so they can know exactly what He wrote.

Even by the translation what he wrote was word salad. Therefore, no need to learn Arabic or Persian when I do not accept Allah / God or his prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / mahdis.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Here is an example of the evidence on display at the British Museum.

Yeah, publicity event. Call a few members of Parliament for inauguration, send free air tickets to academics. Ask people to write articles in newspapers. Sell snake-oil. I have been through all that. What do a few glossy printed books prove?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yeah, publicity event. Call a few members of Parliament for inauguration, send free air tickets to academics. Ask people to write articles in newspapers. Sell snake-oil. I have been through all that. What do a few glossy printed books prove?

It proves what Baha'u'llah offered from God and wrote is available, authenticated and not fake. They are now the proof of Baha'u'llah, as what is written changes lives. It is offered within those writings that they will change your life only if a person chooses to immerse themselves in the ocean of those words.

If it is not this message that will lead us to our unity in diversity, from where else will it come? What else offers the unity of all humanity?

There would not be many people left in the world that can not now see, that without finding unity, we will not find peace.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

Hinduism has been so changed over time that I do not think we can know what its origins were. .. Baha'u'llah did not say anything about Hinduism.

I do not think it matters what Hinduism accepts; since they do not believe in progressive revelation they probably do not accept all the Messengers of God, especially those on the Abrahamic line.

What would that uneducated 19th Century Iranian preacher will know about Hinduism or Buddhism? His knowledge did not extend beyond Quran, Bible and Torah.
Hinduism is meant to change with time. It is a dynamic religion. It keeps pace with with science. Advaita (non-dual) Hinduism is definitely a progress. It is not contained in just one book or spiel of one person.
Yeah, Hinduism does not believe in prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / mahdis from God / Allah.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What would that uneducated 19th Century Iranian preacher will know about Hinduism or Buddhism? His knowledge did not extend beyond Quran, Bible and Torah.
Hinduism is meant to change with time. It is a dynamic religion. It keeps pace with with science. Advaita (non-dual) Hinduism is definitely a progress. It is not contained in just one book or spiel of one person.
Yeah, Hinduism does not believe in prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / mahdis from God / Allah.

I see you post Hindu as progressive, but the news we get here in Australia has been running this story.

India rape: Hathras woman from Dalit community dies after alleged gang-rape - CNN

I know you do not support these actions, but at the same time I see the Baha'is in India practice the removal of the caste system in their daily lives and are offering that change.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

It proves what Baha'u'llah offered from God and wrote is available, authenticated and not fake.
What else offers the unity of all humanity? .. that without finding unity, we will not find peace.

Regards Tony

Bahaollah as well as his Allah themselves are unauthnticated. You can offer no evidence.
Rejection of all prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / mahdis and what they have said is the only way to world peace. It is following these people which does not allow us to find unity and peace.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I see you post Hindu as progressive, but the news we get here in Australia has been running this story.
India rape: Hathras woman from Dalit community dies after alleged gang-rape - CNN
I know you do not support these actions, but at the same time I see the Baha'is in India practice the removal of the caste system in their daily lives and are offering that change.

Name one country where rapes do not occur. And being in Australia, you should bury your head in outback sands. You have 28.6 rapes per 100,000 people as against 1.8 for India.
Rape statistics - Wikipedia

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

As a matter of logic, it does not matter if there are many charlatans because that does not mean there cannot be true Messengers of God, not anymore that junk cars in a junkyard proves there are no new cars in the new car lot down the street.

Then the gods method of delivering their messages is flawed. Because it allows charlatans to con people.

I can see the junkyard and new cars. So your example is flawed.

 

[Muffled]

Ouch, i stay far away from Quija boards, i seen my share of bad happenings when others used it before.

I believe the Ouija board won't work for me. It probably recognizes me as an enemy.

 

[Muffled]

What is pretty flawed are the adherents of the revealed religions who are all over the place in their beliefs and can't understand why they are all over the place.

I believe I am not flawed but I make a mistake now and then because my memory doesn't always serve me well. When Jesus speaks through me I am never flawed.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I believe the Ouija board won't work for me. It probably recognizes me as an enemy.

The board is just a wooden board, it does not recognize you but if there is malicious spirits around i would think a normal human being could be played by their tricking us

 

[Trailblazer]

What would that uneducated 19th Century Iranian preacher will know about Hinduism or Buddhism? His knowledge did not extend beyond Quran, Bible and Torah.

Baha'u'llah had the knowledge of God so He knew a lot more than the Quran, Bible and Torah.

“O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 57

Baha'u'llah did not reveal to us all that He knew. I am sure He knew about Buddhism and Hinduism, and there would be no reason why He would write about these religions because they are a different line of religion and there is no need for humanity to know about them in this new age. If He mentioned the Abrahamic religions and Prophets that is because they are part of the history that led up to His Revelation, but even then He considered it a grievous transgression to speak of the days that are past:

“Moreover, it is not Our wish to relate the stories of the days that are past. God is Our witness that what We even now mention is due solely to Our tender affection for thee, that haply the poor of the earth may attain the shores of the sea of wealth, the ignorant be led unto the ocean of divine knowledge, and they that thirst for understanding partake of the Salsabíl of divine wisdom. Otherwise, this servant regardeth the consideration of such records a grave mistake and a grievous transgression.”
The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 63

 

[Trailblazer]

Even by the translation what he wrote was word salad.

To you it was.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Name one country where rapes do not occur. And being in Australia, you should bury your head in outback sands. You have 28.6 rapes per 100,000 people as against 1.8 for India.
Rape statistics - Wikipedia

Yes, this is one of the signs of what happens when people forget God and turn back to their animal selves.

Australia also has become very materialistic and many just want to feed their desires. Many have forgotten their spiritual and moral obligations towards other human beings.

They say we are the lucky country, but material prosperity is naught without spiritual virtue.

By the way down further India quotes 5.8 per 100, 000, but all these statistics would be underestimated, as "rape is a severely under-reported crime with surveys showing dark figures of up to 91.6% of rapes going unreported."

Australia may have a higher percentage of reported rapes, maybe not.

Regards Tony