God’s Method of delivering messages, is it flawed?

[Aupmanyav]

Where you think remembering God / Allah is necessary, I think remembering 'dharma' (duties and righteous action) is necessary. That applies to all, those who believe in this imaginary entity, God / Allah, and the so-claimed (without any evidence) prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / mahdis, or those who do not believe in all that crap. 'Dharma' is an obligation for being part of a society.

'And He bade Me ..'

What evidence does the Iranian preacher offers for that? If no proof is offered then it is just word salad. Snake-oil selling.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Where you think remembering God / Allah is necessary, I think remembering 'dharma' (duties and righteous action) is necessary.

As I see God gives us Ṛta, which can be seen as the Message, then rememberance of God is only acceptable according to Rta in practice of Dharma.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

What evidence does the Iranian preacher offers for that? If no proof is offered then it is just word salad. Snake-oil selling.

There can never be proof that anyone got a message from God, only evidence that indicates that happened.
So we either see the evidence as evidence, or not.

 

[Aupmanyav]

As I see God gives us Ṛta, which can be seen as the Message, then rememberance of God is only acceptable according to Rta in practice of Dharma.

Ṛta is not a God. It is the law of the universe. Like a star with less than 1.6 solar masses turning into a red dwarf (which, one day some 5 billion years from now, our sun would be).
'Dharma' are the rules which a society creates for its peaceful conduct.
God is not necessary for any of the two, 'Ṛta' as well as 'Dharma'.

 

[Aupmanyav]

There can never be proof that anyone got a message from God, only evidence that indicates that happened. So we either see the evidence as evidence, or not.

Yeah, you see what Bahaollah wrote as evidence. For me it is meaningless repetition what has always been said by all religions and claiming it as one's own. Repeating peace and unity a hundred times does not make it happen. Actually it deepens the divide. Bahai belief makes Bahais other than Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, Jews, Christians, Muslims, Ahmadiyyas, etc. If Allah / God did that, then he is the biggest culprit for conflict in the world.

 

[CG Didymus]

I believe that the people, the followers of the religion, changed a lot of the religion over time.

So the system had a flaw. People were capable of corrupting the true message. But, with the Baha'i Faith, God finally figured out how to avoid that?

 

[CG Didymus]

You don't have to and I don't have to either... I can read the Writings of Baha'u'llah.

I do not believe any of these individuals are Messengers of God and you already know why.

“Whoso layeth claim to a Revelation direct from God, ere the expiration of a full thousand years, such a man is assuredly a lying impostor. We pray God that He may graciously assist him to retract and repudiate such claim. Should he repent, God will, no doubt, forgive him. If, however, he persisteth in his error, God will, assuredly, send down one who will deal mercilessly with him. Terrible, indeed, is God in punishing! Whosoever interpreteth this verse otherwise than its obvious meaning is deprived of the Spirit of God and of His mercy which encompasseth all created things. Fear God, and follow not your idle fancies. Nay, rather follow the bidding of your Lord, the Almighty, the All-Wise.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 346

It literally disgusts me if they claim to be Messengers of God and if they do I hope they get what is coming to them.

So all of them are fakes? God didn't speak to them? They are all liars? What if they are like that other level of prophet? The one like what Baha'is say that people like Isaiah and Jeremiah were?

 

[CG Didymus]

A materialistic mind wanting to feed self gratification will never want to find faith.

Only when one considers what Faith can do for all humanity, will growth happen.

Regards Tony

Again, the track record of people that put their "faith" in religion isn't very good. Maybe the Baha'is will be better, but the other religions sure killed and exploited a lot of people. That's why some people demand proof.

 

[CG Didymus]

Hindus say a lot of things and they do not agree. Hinduism has been so changed over time that I do not think we can know what its origins were. I do not know what the official Baha'i position is, as I recall reading on Baha'i Library online, Baha'u'llah did not say anything about Hinduism.

I do not think it matters what Hinduism accepts; since they do not believe in progressive revelation they probably do not accept all the Messengers of God, especially those on the Abrahamic line.

Is Hinduism a true religion of God or not? That is one thing I don't like what Baha'is can do with the other religions. They can say they believe them at the same time they say they don't believe them. Baha'is can reject any form of Hinduism that doesn't believe in Krishna, because Krishna is the one Baha'is say was the true manifestation. But, what about the other incarnations of Vishnu? Most Baha'is probably know nothing about them and probably reject them as false. So what is left about what Baha'is really believe is true about Hinduism? Not much. So to say Baha'is believe in Hinduism is not accurate nor true. Like with all the other religions, Baha'is believe in the Baha'i interpretation of what is Hinduism. And that version might not even exist. It is just an "ideal" Hinduism... one that conforms with Baha'i beliefs.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yo are free to believe that if it makes more sense to you. I can accept the older scriptures for what they are, take what I like and leave the rest.

Well let's take the Bible for an example. What do you think... People made up things like the creation story and flood story or do you believe God "inspired" people to write those stories but meant them to be fictional, symbolic stories?

 

[CG Didymus]

Those who know Arabic and Persian can read the original Writings of Baha'u'llah, so they can know exactly what He wrote.

Even by the translation what he wrote was word salad.

Yes, it's very wordy. And is it really any different that other Middle Eastern poets? Trailblazer, do you ever got lost and miss the point Baha'u'llah was trying to make?

 

[CG Didymus]

Baha'u'llah did not reveal to us all that He knew. I am sure He knew about Buddhism and Hinduism, and there would be no reason why He would write about these religions because they are a different line of religion and there is no need for humanity to know about them in this new age. If He mentioned the Abrahamic religions and Prophets that is because they are part of the history that led up to His Revelation, but even then He considered it a grievous transgression to speak of the days that are past:

A different "line" of religion? How many progressions do believe in? No "need" to know about them? Then that is a "flaw". He was from Islam and everything he wrote reflected that. The Baha'i Faith has too many similarities to Islam. So much so that I think it is a "liberal" form of Islam in many ways.

 

[Trailblazer]

So the system had a flaw. People were capable of corrupting the true message. But, with the Baha'i Faith, God finally figured out how to avoid that?

Yes, by virtue of the Covenant of Baha'u'llah we had appointed interpreters of the Writings and we also have the UHJ who can clarify the meaning of the Writings, so we do not have to fight over what they mean like Christians do regarding the Bible.

Also because of the Covenant of Baha'u'llah the Baha'i Faith can never have any schisms where believers go off and create a separate sect of the religion, as Christians and other religious believers have done.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes, by virtue of the Covenant of Baha'u'llah we had appointed interpreters of the Writings and we also have the UHJ who can clarify the meaning of the Writings, so we do not have to fight over what they mean like Christians do regarding the Bible.

Also because of the Covenant of Baha'u'llah the Baha'i Faith can never have any schisms where believers go off and create a separate sect of the religion, as Christians and other religious believers have done.

So God corrected the flaw?

 

[Trailblazer]

So all of them are fakes? God didn't speak to them? They are all liars? What if they are like that other level of prophet? The one like what Baha'is say that people like Isaiah and Jeremiah were?

Yes, if they laid a claim to a Revelation direct from God after Baha'u'llah I believe they were lying or delusional.
I think the days of prophets as we see in the Old Testament are over. We did not see any other prophets during the days of Jesus or Muhammad, so why would we see them after that?

 

[Trailblazer]

So God corrected the flaw?

Yes.

 

[Trailblazer]

Is Hinduism a true religion of God or not? That is one thing I don't like what Baha'is can do with the other religions. They can say they believe them at the same time they say they don't believe them. Baha'is can reject any form of Hinduism that doesn't believe in Krishna, because Krishna is the one Baha'is say was the true manifestation. But, what about the other incarnations of Vishnu? Most Baha'is probably know nothing about them and probably reject them as false. So what is left about what Baha'is really believe is true about Hinduism? Not much. So to say Baha'is believe in Hinduism is not accurate nor true. Like with all the other religions, Baha'is believe in the Baha'i interpretation of what is Hinduism. And that version might not even exist. It is just an "ideal" Hinduism... one that conforms with Baha'i beliefs.

There is no 'Bahai interpretation' of Hinduism. Baha'u'llah did not address Hinduism so there is no way to know which of the many Hindu beliefs are accurate, if any. I never see Baha'is talk about Hinduism in the United States unless they are goaded into it on forums. By contrast, American Baha'is have a reason to talk about Christianity because most people they talk to are Christians.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well let's take the Bible for an example. What do you think... People made up things like the creation story and flood story or do you believe God "inspired" people to write those stories but meant them to be fictional, symbolic stories?

I have no idea how the Bible came to be written the way it was written but I imagine there must have been a reason. However, I do not think it is relevant to this new age. Baha'u'llah wrote that dwelling on the stories of the past is a grave mistake and a grievous transgression

“…… To this testify the records of the sacred books. Were the details to be mentioned, this epistle would swell into a book. Moreover, it is not Our wish to relate the stories of the days that are past. God is Our witness that what We even now mention is due solely to Our tender affection for thee, that haply the poor of the earth may attain the shores of the sea of wealth, the ignorant be led unto the ocean of divine knowledge, and they that thirst for understanding partake of the Salsabíl of divine wisdom. Otherwise, this servant regardeth the consideration of such records a grave mistake and a grievous transgression.”
The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 63

 

[Trailblazer]

Trailblazer, do you ever got lost and miss the point Baha'u'llah was trying to make?

In the past, I never understood it but after reading it over and over I now understand what He means.

 

[Trailblazer]

A different "line" of religion? How many progressions do believe in? No "need" to know about them? Then that is a "flaw". He was from Islam and everything he wrote reflected that. The Baha'i Faith has too many similarities to Islam. So much so that I think it is a "liberal" form of Islam in many ways.

Of course the Baha'i Faith is similar to Islam, it grew out of Islam and it is closest in chronological time to Islam since Islam is a newer religion than Buddhism, Hinduism, or Zoroastrianism.

The 8 Oldest Religions in the World

• Hinduism (founded around the 15th – 5th century BCE) ...
• Zoroastrianism (10th – 5th century BCE) ...
• Judaism (9th – 5th century BCE) ...
• Jainism (8th – 2nd century BCE) ...
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The 8 Oldest Religions in the World - Culture Trip