God’s Method of delivering messages, is it flawed?

[Trailblazer]

Can you point me to the place Baha'u'llah predicted exactly what was going to happen in America? Because so far you only posted a link to a guy who said it in 1950 and a Muslim who was falling in line with many other Muslims.

“This question of the union of the white and the black is very important,” He warns, “for if it is not realized, erelong great difficulties will arise, and harmful results will follow.” “If this matter remaineth without change,” is yet another warning, “enmity will be increased day by day, and the final result will be hardship and may end in bloodshed.”
The Advent of Divine Justice, p. 39

 

[Trailblazer]

Most have never heard of him and those that have rejected him. fine for a mortal man, very poor for a messenger from god.

No, it is the usual case for a Messenger of God, in the first centuries:

“Just how small was the Christian movement in the first century is clear from the calculations of the sociologist R Stark (1996:5-7; so too Hopkins 1998:192-193). Stark begins his analysis with a rough estimation of six million Christians in the Roman Empire (or about ten percent of the total population) at the start of the fourth century... There were 1,000 Christians in the year 40, 1,400 Christians in 50, 1,960 Christians in 60, 2,744 Christians in 70, 3,842 Christians in 80, 5,378 Christians in 90 and 7,530 Christians at the end of the first century.

These figures are very suggestive, and reinforce the point that in its initial decades the Christian movement represented a tiny fraction of the ancient world.”

How many Jews became Christians in the first century?

 

[Trailblazer]

Hard to hear a man who couldn't even convince his jailors. Fine for a mortal man, very bad for a messenger from god.

I guess you do not know much about the history of the Baha'i Faith.

Abdu’l-Baha wrote that the rulers of Palestine envied the respect Baha’u’llah received, and that the growing spiritual influence of his Faith made confinement impossible:

Although the royal [command] specifically decreed that Baha’u’llah was to be held in solitary confinement within the Akka fortress, in a cell, under perpetual guard; that He was never to set foot outside; that He was never even to see any of the believers — notwithstanding such a [command], such a drastic order, His tent was raised in majesty on the heights of Mount Carmel. What greater display of power could there be than this…? – Memorials of the Faithful, p. 27.

The Prophet Leaves the Prison

 

[Trailblazer]

Trailblazer said: Baha'u'llah wrote 15,000 Tablets. How is God going to tell all that to 7.8 billion people?

I don't know, could it be because he's God?

It is precisely because He is God that He is not going to do what humans want Him to do.

Omnipotent means God is All-Powerful, but any logical person could figure out that a God that is All-Powerful does not do anything He does not WANT to do, because He does not have to. Rather, God only does what He chooses to do, period.

“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.” Gleanings, p. 209

“Say: He ordaineth as He pleaseth, by virtue of His sovereignty, and doeth whatsoever He willeth at His own behest. He shall not be asked of the things it pleaseth Him to ordain. He, in truth, is the Unrestrained, the All-Powerful, the All-Wise.”
Gleanings, p, 284

“He shall not be asked of the things it pleaseth Him to ordain.” That means God has no suggestion box.

Trailblazer said: I guess God would have to spend about 100 years down here talking, flying from country to country.

Exactly, in 100 years the messenge reached 7.8 billion people, that's is faster than 150+ years and..............how many people?

God could not care less how many people it reaches, it is a human desire that MORE people are reached.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

The gate is open for the few who choose to walk through it. Belief has always been a choice God wants people to make, and that is one reason why God never makes a grand appearance.

Trailblazer said: Then someone would have to write it down, because no human could ever memorize 15,000 Tablets

That "someone" would be God. Obviously it wouldn't take long since 15,000 Tablets didn't take long.

God does not write because God is not a human. God sends Messengers to do His speaking and writing for Him.
It is just tough luck that atheists don't like it, because they cannot do a darn thing about it, except choose to not to believe in God.

“The Person of the Manifestation hath ever been the representative and mouthpiece of God. He, in truth, is the Day Spring of God’s most excellent Titles, and the Dawning-Place of His exalted Attributes. If any be set up by His side as peers, if they be regarded as identical with His Person, how can it, then, be maintained that the Divine Being is One and Incomparable, that His Essence is indivisible and peerless? Meditate on that which We have, through the power of truth, revealed unto thee, and be thou of them that comprehend its meaning.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 70

Trailblazer said: Get real. There is a reason God uses Messengers and it is perfectly logical.

It's real that 100 years is less than 150+ years. It's perfectly illogical to think that 150+ years is more effective than 100 years.

Only what you proposed is only a fantasy, and what Baha’u’llah accomplished is a reality.
Fantasies don’t count and neither do numbers because God has no calculator or even an adding machine. Only humans carry those.

Ahhhhhh. The evidence, pieces of information and fact indicating the irrational thinking of Trailblazer. Thanks for providing the evidence.

I am not the one who is irrational. People who expect God to show up and do what they want Him to do, as if God was a short order cook, claim that door prize, so thanks for claiming the door prize.

And as usual, no atheist EVER has any logical retort to my arguments… All they can say is “God is omnipotent so God can do anything.” What all atheists totally miss is that an omnipotent God only DOES what He chooses to do, not what they WANT him to do.

Eight years I have been waiting for just one atheist to figure out what is so logical.

 

[Trailblazer]

How would Baha'u'llah's peace plan work?

I do not know w[exactly how it would work, but I am sure other Baha'is know more than I do.
I am always too busy answering posts to have time to read.

Oh thank God, someone else has already done the work for me.
Google is my friend.

Understanding the Baha’i Peace Plan

The Baha'i Peace Plan

 

[Trailblazer]

So your god reacts to Man rather than us reacting to him. Strange god.

I do not know what you mean by reacting, but God is in the drivers seat, not humans.

 

[Trailblazer]

Bahsollah says that a 'Maid of Heaven' visited him in jail and Mohammad says that Angel Gabriel (Jibrīl) came to him. None of the two offer any other evidence.

Evidence is not what makes anything into reality. Reality simply exists and we either discover it or fail to do so...

Evidence is just what some people want to believe, but not all people have the same standards of evidence.

And some of us realize that it is logically impossible to ever prove that the Maid of Heaven or the Angel Gabriel visited Baha'u'llah or Muhammad, as that is a faith-based belief.

 

[Trailblazer]

So did anyone get to see this miracle? Where is the independent recording of a miracle?

Nobody saw that miracle because the Muslims who agreed to it never showed up.

“The envoy found the answers of Bahá’u’lláh so convincing and His wisdom so amazing, although evidently not acquired by study, that he was obliged to confess that in knowledge and understanding Bahá’u’lláh was peerless. In order, however, that the Mullás who had sent him should be satisfied as to the reality of Bahá’u’lláh’s Prophethood, he asked that some miracle should be produced as proof. Bahá’u’lláh expressed His willingness to accept the suggestion on certain conditions, declaring that if the Mullás would agree regarding some miracle to be performed, and would sign and seal a document to the effect that on performance of this miracle they would confess the validity of His mission and cease to oppose Him, 29 He would furnish the desired proof or else stand convicted of imposture. Had the aim of the Mullás been to get at the truth, surely here was their opportunity; but their intention was far otherwise. Rightly or wrongly, they meant to secure a decision in their own favor. They feared the truth and fled from the daring challenge.”

Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, pp. 28-29

You can read all about the Opposition of Mullás on this page.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The following story by Haji Mirza Haydar-‘Ali confirms the power of the revealed Word. Haji was introduced to a person who was opposed to the Faith and found it very difficult to be convinced of its truth. This is a summary of his account:

A certain person who was a pious and devoted Muslim was introduced to me. No matter how much I spoke to him, he kept on insisting that he would never accept the Faith unless he was shown a miracle. In the end I was powerless to convince him of the truth of the Faith. So I said to him, ‘There is an inherent ability within every soul by which it can distinguish the words of God from the words of man.’ He agreed with me on this. I then said to him, ‘I will now recite some words for you, so incline your inner ears to them and judge for yourself who is the Speaker.’ I then chanted a Persian Tablet in which the overpowering majesty of the Words was clearly manifested. He had heard only a few verses when he lowered his head, prostrated himself or the ground, and said, ‘These are the words of God, exalted be His glory. There are many miracles hidden in each word. I testify that these utterances unmistakably proclaim the advent of the Day of God . . .’ He stayed with us for the whole night, during which he learnt about the teachings and the laws of the new Dispensation. This man became enraptured and set aglow with the fire of the love of God. (Adib Taherzadeh, The Revelation of Baha’u’llah v 4, p. 238)

Again, Google is my friend. You can read that story and some other accounts of Miracles on the link below.:

Famous Miracles in the Baha'i Faith

• The Bab. The Báb cured Munírih Khánum's parents of infertility; and their daughter later became 'Abdu'l-Bahá's wife: ...
• Bahá'u'lláh. One time, the religious leaders in Persia asked Baha'u'llah to perform a miracle to prove the reality of His mission. ...
• 'Abdu'l-Bahá ...
• Shoghi Effendi. ...
• The Biggest Miracle of All!

May 6, 2015

Famous Miracles in the Baha'i Faith | Ninestar Solutions

 

[Trailblazer]

Fine if he's a mortal, bad for a Messenger from God.

Fine if He is a Messenger of God, because I have already listed the seven reasons why only a few people recognize a new Messenger when He appears on earth.

#1017 Trailblazer, Today at 2:23 PM

 

[Trailblazer]

The same reason you believe in Baha. You have no verifiable evidence.

What would be proof that a god exists?

Comes down to Earth
Moves a mountain from A to B
Cures Covid
Cures cancer
Limits the overpopulation of Man on Earth this is the biggest problem we have now. The Earth simply can't survive with 7 billion and soon to become 9 billion because religious people think "Go forth and multiply" is a reason to keep adding to the population.

Sends messenger with lots to say about nothing much, is pointless because by your own admission it's not working.

God is not responsible to prove he exists.
God is not responsible to DO any of what you listed even if He could.
God has entrusted humans with those responsibilities.

You want some kind in instant solution to fix all the problems humans have created for centuries, but that is not reality. Implementing solutions to all the world's problems take a long time.

 

[Trailblazer]

Again judging your messengers as ordinary mortal men and not messengers from god.

Judge them however you like. It won't make any difference to anyone except yourself.

 

[Trailblazer]

It would only take a god to indicate independently who is the true messenger, not teach us all about their messages. Your reasoning is flawed.

It is your reasoning that is flawed, because if an Omnioptent God wanted to do what you propose He would have done it by now.

God will never do that because nobody deserves to know unless they do the work of finding out for themselves.
You want a free ride, but there are no free rides.

“He Who is the Day Spring of Truth is, no doubt, fully capable of rescuing from such remoteness wayward souls and of causing them to draw nigh unto His court and attain His Presence.“If God had pleased He had surely made all men one people.” His purpose, however, is to enable the pure in spirit and the detached in heart to ascend, by virtue of their own innate powers, unto the shores of the Most Great Ocean, that thereby they who seek the Beauty of the All-Glorious may be distinguished and separated from the wayward and perverse. Thus hath it been ordained by the all-glorious and resplendent Pen…” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 71

In that passage, He Who is the Day Spring of Truth refers to God. “If God had pleased He had surely made all men one people” means that God could do something to ensure that everyone would know He exists. In that passage, “ascend, by virtue of their own innate powers, unto the shores of the Most Great Ocean” means using your reason (innate powers) to determine if God exists. God wants everyone to search for Him and determine that He exists by using their own reason.

Or does your god respond to Baha'u'llah rather than Baha'u'llah responding to god?

God does whatever he Wills, He answers to nobody.

“Say: He ordaineth as He pleaseth, by virtue of His sovereignty, and doeth whatsoever He willeth at His own behest. He shall not be asked of the things it pleaseth Him to ordain. He, in truth, is the Unrestrained, the All-Powerful, the All-Wise.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p, 284

 

[Ancient Soul]

LOL!

Yet ANOTHER joke!

But I'll take what the true God has shown me thru-out my lifetime over your silly messed up man made mythology any day.

That would be the joke.

Yes, sadly the joke is on all those poor saps blindly believing in their respective spiritually void religions based upon some self-ordained spokesperson for some made up "god".

 

[Ancient Soul]

LOL!

Yet ANOTHER joke!

But I'll take what the true God has shown me thru-out my lifetime over your silly messed up man made mythology any day.

I see the vortex of self draws many of us away from the lifeline.

Good thing is, if the vortex releases, even if it is only for a while, then the lifelines are now always there.

Regards Tony

I see that you are seriously lacking in reading comprehension. As your reply falls flat on it's face to what I stated.

 

[Ancient Soul]

I have something of merit, but I have no wish to debate with you.

Matthew 7:6

Lame.

You could just be honest and say you cannot defend your weak claim.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, sadly the joke is on all those poor saps blindly believing in their respective spiritually void religions based upon some self-ordained spokesperson for some made up "god".

Yes, sadly the joke is on all those poor saps blindly believing that God speaks to them directly.

 

[Trailblazer]

Lame.

You could just be honest and say you cannot defend your weak claim.

I could defend it if I wanted to, but I don't waste my time on people who only want to prove they are right.

 

[Ancient Soul]

Yes, sadly the joke is on all those poor saps blindly believing that God speaks to them directly.

And yet God has given me a wealth of true spiritual understandings, while you got NOTHING.

Why is that?

 

[Ancient Soul]

I could defend it if I wanted to, but I don't waste my time on people who only want to prove they are right.

Pot/kettle!!!

You got NOTHING and you know it, that's why you cannot even TRY to debate the issues I presented.

 

[Aupmanyav]

So, God is going to write the equivalent if 15,000 Tablets that Baha'u'llah wrote in the sky for all of the 7.8 billion people alive on earth to SEE?
- God does not 'check in' with humans because God is not our servant, we are God's servants.
- No fault is involved. It is only by God's mercy and grace that He sends Messengers, and then people complain about them. That is like if someone gave you a free gift and you threw it back in their face.
- Proof was offered, another thing that people throw back in God's Face.

- You are underestimating your Allah / God. It would take him 1 / 15000 of a second to write 15,000 tablets. Is your Allah not all powerful? You are putting limits to what Allah can do.
- You may be someone's servant. I am not.
- God's / Allah's gift is infected with virus of servitude, denial of truth and ignorance. It is better that it is thrown back in his face and in the face of people who claim to be his prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / mahdis.
- No proof has ever been offered, only yaketi-yak, blah, blah, blah, blah - 15000 tablets in 14th Century English done by his great grandson in 20th Century to make it seem as if it was ancient writing. Deceiveth, fooleth.