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God and logic

T

The high master

Member
If God is not bound by logic then can who do the following
Make something bigger then infinity
Make a better power then omnipotent
Make something that can do the impossible not matter what it is
 
I

InformedIgnorance

Do you 'know' or believe?
If God is not bound by logic, then logical restraints are inconsequential; something can be true even if it is false or impossible; it can also be false even if it is true or necessary; it can also be neither true nor false.

An existence not bound by logic could create all things, without ever needing to exist.

Do you see the problem we have in discussing such an entity or force? The sort of claims that can be made are absurdities, they can be self-contradictory yet without logic this infers no problem, any rational discussion or consideration of such an existence is impossible - and any claim is valid no matter its irrationality.
 
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Heathen Hammer

Heathen Hammer

Nope, you're still wrong
Thief said:
I like the first line.

May I offer....
Having created the universe, the substance of such must remain as such to be the....universe.

Superpowers?
We do seem to think of God His ability to manipulate at will.
Click to expand...
Sorry but eliminated the repetitious non sequitur at the end.

I'm glad you like the first line, as it unequivocally removes the lame assertion of others that God has no boundaries to the point of being outside the logical framework.

I am so tired of flagging the Dog Whisperer Fallacy around here.

If God isn't logical, people, you have a bad idea of God. That version does not exist.
 
dyanaprajna2011

dyanaprajna2011

Dharmapala
The high master said:
Maybe not sure
If God is outside of of logic can he do the impossible
Click to expand...

Ok, you're not sure if god is perfect or not. This is a start. Now, I'll tell you where I'm going with this, and it might help. Most people would say god is perfect. So, what does it mean to be perfect? Wouldn't it mean not lacking in anything? If that's the case, then why did god create in the first place? If god created everything, then this would imply that he was not perfect. And, once we realize that this world is very much imperfect, you then have a supposedly perfect god, who still has some need to create, which would imply imperfection, creating an imperfect world. This is illogical. Does this mean such a god doesn't exist? No, but it makes it highly doubtful.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Heathen Hammer said:
Sorry but eliminated the repetitious non sequitur at the end.

I'm glad you like the first line, as it unequivocally removes the lame assertion of others that God has no boundaries to the point of being outside the logical framework.

I am so tired of flagging the Dog Whisperer Fallacy around here.

If God isn't logical, people, you have a bad idea of God. That version does not exist.
Click to expand...

So we agree?...God has supernatural powers.
But refrains any use that is not logical.
And this restraint maintains the universe....as is.
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
9Westy9 said:
if an omnipotent being exists it's not bound by anything
Click to expand...
I suppose then that god is also not bound by existence, and if he so decided he could simply poof himself out of existence, which would bind him to non-existence. So, there is something that can bind him.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Heathen Hammer said:
No, it's not that he refrains from

He cannot

All in the abstract.
Click to expand...

He cannot refrain?

How could any form of intelligence lack the ability of self denial?
Without it...any impulse to move would be fulfilled.

In the hands of an Almighty....the lack of restraint would tear the creation apart.
(like an artist having become discontent with his expression.)
 
9Westy9

9Westy9

Sceptic, Libertarian, Egalitarian
Premium Member
Skwim said:
I suppose then that god is also not bound by existence, and if he so decided he could simply poof himself out of existence, which would bind him to non-existence. So, there is something that can bind him.
Click to expand...

or we can say that, by definition, an omnipotent being can bring himself out of non-existence into existence as he can do anything :p
 
9Westy9

9Westy9

Sceptic, Libertarian, Egalitarian
Premium Member
Heathen Hammer said:
Depends on the context of 'omnipotent'

and he will still be constrained by logic, sorry
Click to expand...

an omnipotent would be able to do anything regardless of logic. Even if it makes no sense. Not that I'd say omnipotence is even possible.
 
Heathen Hammer

Heathen Hammer

Nope, you're still wrong
Thief said:
He cannot refrain?

How could any form of intelligence lack the ability of self denial?
Without it...any impulse to move would be fulfilled.

In the hands of an Almighty....the lack of restraint would tear the creation apart.
(like an artist having become discontent with his expression.)
Click to expand...
No, you're not getting what Im saying.

My words mean "it's not that he is refraining from doing so by any choice. He cannot do so."

He could not break such a necessary framework. At this point these assertions about an omnipotent being, go back to what I said about kids talking about the best superpowers. It's become a contest of creating the greatest superlative which has merely devolved into sentences whose words make no sense.
There are no square circles, and cannot be, no matter how powerful your God is.
I think that is also a reply to 9Westy9 too.

To pretend that is so is just... playing pretend.
 
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