God before the universe

[David T]

It matters, because god creating the universe might be a lie.

you give people way too much credit. A lie means there was intent, intent implies a level of personal awareness that doesn't jive with the emperical evidence at all. Since there obviously lacks any self awareness in such individuals the topic "god" in some way could be both true and yetThe way its articulated has zero to do with the topic!!!

 

[David T]

God is Pan? I'll be darned!


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Yes true but check out psyche!!!the story goes tha pan had a weakness for beautiful wood nymphs. !!

 

[Upaava]

Since abrahamic god is eternal, what was he doing before he created the universe, including heaven and hell?

May peace be with you,

It is generally understood that God, being as One, is not self aware, existing in an eternal state of bliss. For self-awareness there requires a self and a not-self, a duality that does not exist in God's eternal Oneness.

Thus was brought forth the dualistic universe, within which, according to God's design, life has been progressing. We are part of that evolutionary plan, having come a very long way as shown in the fossil record-- God experiencing Himself-Herself through creations vast, eternal evolutionary experiences.

Let us not devalue the meaning or importance of our lives, but make the most of them, doing all we can to become the best people that we can be.

 

[arthra]

Since abrahamic god is eternal, what was he doing before he created the universe, including heaven and hell?

The Baha'i view of God is that He is a creating God... that there was not a time when He was not creating... that the universe has always been there...and that the creating process has been through what we call "emanation". I'll add a few citations to my opening remarks...

"This emanation, in that which concerns its action in the world of God, is not limited by time or place; it is without beginning or end; beginning and end in relation to God are one. The pre-existence of God is the pre-existence of essence, and also pre-existence of time, and the phenomenality of contingency is essential and not temporal...."

(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith , p. 315)

"...this endless universe, has neither beginning nor end. Yes, it may be that one of the parts of the universe, one of the globes, for example, may come into existence, or may be disintegrated, but the other endless globes are still existing; the universe would not be disordered nor destroyed. 181 On the contrary, existence is eternal and perpetual."

(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 180)

 

[Aupmanyav]

Tired signs of weakness.

Well, whatever - views. You may have your own and consider them the best. For me, there is no God, no soul, no creation, no birth, no death, no reincarnation, no bondage (other than social), no deliverance, no heaven, no hell. Match that.

Yes true but check out Psyche !! The story goes that Pan had a weakness for beautiful wood nymphs !!

Would not blame him.

 

[Journeyholic]

God doesn't create you and you just popped up like that. Ok.

 

[capumetu]

Jehovah does not reveal that to us at this time. He always existed. History began to us when He created His only begotten son.

capumetu @yours.com

No space after u

 

[omega2xx]

It matters, because god creating the universe might be a lie.

Do you have a better explanation for the existence of matter, energy and life?

 

[omega2xx]

So...God spent an eternity doing unimportant things?

God never does anything not important.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

No universe, no heaven, no hell on a paper, or on his mind. Way before that. What was he doing?

What does it matter? What He eventually did is the only important thing.

So...God spent an eternity doing unimportant things?

God never does anything not important.

I'm not sure how to go about discussing topics are asking questions or clarifications to persons who either don't say what they mean or change their position based on the last comment. You clearly said that whatever god was doing before was not in the realm of important. If it were not important than at best it is inconsequential.

In all honesty, in my opinion, you seem to just back off of what you say when asked to clarify. You do it by making affirmative statements which contradict previous statements, and seem to have a cavalier attitude.

You're right because you say so and what you said earlier is (evidently) easily explained (let me guess) because Im just not capable of truly understanding?

So, is whatever god was doing 'before' inconsequential/unimportant, or is it important? Let me guess, he was doing nothing at all? If that's the case I'd say it would have to be inconsequential. I'm starting to feel like the only rational position would be that god didn't exist before he created existence.

 

[confused453]

Do you have a better explanation for the existence of matter, energy and life?

Not really, nothing absolutely convincing.

 

[Kenny]

I'm not sure how to go about discussing topics are asking questions or clarifications to persons who either don't say what they mean or change their position based on the last comment. You clearly said that whatever god was doing before was not in the realm of important. If it were not important than at best it is inconsequential.
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I'm not sure I agree. This looks more like a problem of communication and might be a difference in context.

In the light of "what did He do before" concerning our need to know, it is not important.
In the light of "whatever He did before" in the context of whatever He did, its always important... we just don't know what He did.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Whatever he was doing, he obviously wasn't thinking about the concepts of logic and consistency.

 

[Kenny]

Whatever He was doing, our pea sized brains would look at it as illogical and inconsistent. But then again, we only see in part and it is more likely we that are illogical and inconsistent--at least history does prove that part out.

 

[omega2xx]

I'm not sure how to go about discussing topics are asking questions or clarifications to persons who either don't say what they mean or change their position based on the last comment. You clearly said that whatever god was doing before was not in the realm of important. If it were not important than at best it is inconsequential.

In all honesty, in my opinion, you seem to just back off of what you say when asked to clarify. You do it by making affirmative statements which contradict previous statements, and seem to have a cavalier attitude.

You're right because you say so and what you said earlier is (evidently) easily explained (let me guess) because Im just not capable of truly understanding?

So, is whatever god was doing 'before' inconsequential/unimportant, or is it important? Let me guess, he was doing nothing at all? If that's the case I'd say it would have to be inconsequential. I'm starting to feel like the only rational position would be that god didn't exist before he created existence.

Unless we know what it was, we can't know. If it was important for us to know He would hav told us.

If you have a better way to explain how matter, energy and life originated from nothing, believe it.

 

[omega2xx]

Not really, nothing absolutely convincing.

When you can't prove something, use logic.

 

[Etritonakin]

Since abrahamic god is eternal, what was he doing before he created the universe, including heaven and hell?

I don't know, but.......
Eternal may not mean what we think it means. If something cannot come from nothing, then something has "always" existed. However, that something has not always necessarily existed in the same state or configuration. It is assumed by some that God has always existed in a complex configuration -but it is not actually stated in scripture. God may have always been God -always existing and never changing in some respects, but if God creates, then he -essentially being all that can act and be acted upon -makes himself of a different configuration and makes more to be known even if no new "material" has come into existence. I AM may have always been a true statement, but the definition changes with each change. If no new material can come from nothing, then eternity may be a matter of infinite subdivision. We, ourselves, are a part of the whole -made separate persons by arrangement. In creating us, God essentially separated a part of himself which could then be independent of him by decision -and even create things which are new to him.

Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Evolving

That is actually true if "evolving" is not limited to element-based life and its broadest definition is considered.

It is not actually against scripture for "God" to have once been the most simple state possible -and to have self-developed.

Not considering "God" for a moment...... If earthly life represents the first self-aware intelligent beings, it could still at least be said that eventual self-awareness and intelligence is inherent in that which exists. In our cases, we represent a portion of all which exists -and are aware of only a portion of all which exists. It is also true that even though our environment is already in motion and interacting according to logic, there are some things which cannot happen without intelligence and self-awareness.

We may find that this is true of everything -that "God" -everything and the mind thereof -must have possessed or developed self-awareness and intelligence for things to become as they are.

Is it more logical that complex configurations and order such as the universe and periodic table develop in tandem with an overall intelligence and self-awareness -or for extremely complex configurations and order to develop first and alone -eventually resulting in mass-produced self-awarenesses and intelligences?

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

I'm not sure I agree. This looks more like a problem of communication and might be a difference in context.

In the light of "what did He do before" concerning our need to know, it is not important.
In the light of "whatever He did before" in the context of whatever He did, its always important... we just don't know what He did.

But this still begs questions.

How could god have done anything in a vacuum? How could he have accomplished anything? How could he have had any input, or effect, on anything? All I can imagine is that he went through an eternity of self-reflexion. But this would imply he was not completely self-aware, and therefore not omniscient.

Another question, if it is the doing, the creation, that is important, then why have a pre-existence period at all. The argument that there must be a primal cause, is not as strong as the argument that if there were a god, then existence must have always existed. If god exists, then his existence in a vacuum is meaningless, therefore all of creation must have always existed. We know this not to be the case.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Well, whatever - views. You may have your own and consider them the best. For me, there is no God, no soul, no creation, no birth, no death, no reincarnation, no bondage (other than social), no deliverance, no heaven, no hell. Match that.
Would not blame him.

Just don't tell me there are no Oreos!

 

[Kilgore Trout]

But then again, we only see in part and it is more likely we that are illogical and inconsistent--at least history does prove that part out.

Absolutely. Particularly, in regards to all the silly god concepts we've invented.