God convinced me he doesn't exist. What did he do to to convince you he does or doesn't exist??

[YoursTrue]

Whether or not the universe had a beginning is irrelevant to those two arguments I posted.

I think he's merely trying to establish that a necessary existence is self existent and in no need of anything else to exist and cannot not exist. He's also trying to establish that the totality of reality relies on this necessary existence. For all intense purposes the universe could have existed forever.

To think it was 'always' in existence is clearly beyond the human imagination concerning logic. Bye for now.

 

[syo]

Polytheism convinced me.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

I had believed in God for 60 years. For the next 10 years I reverted to believing it was some kind of deistic god or higher power, but most certainly this higher power was NOT the Christian pagan god, Yahweh (Yahweh in case you didn't know was a minor Canaanite god in a collection of Canaanite gods that included Asherah, Baal and headed by chief god, El. The early Hebrews living among the Canaanites picked up Yahweh and made him their chief god). Recently I've decided to just go full atheist. I've never had any proof God exists; I've never had any prayers answered; the world is cruel unjust place filled with violence and death; the Bible is riddled with errors and inaccuracies; there's no proof a Jesus of Nazareth ever existed. It just makes more sense to me that it was natural selection that created this marvelous universe. We are a tremendously complex accident and we are now destroying the earth with our avarice. In 100 years global warming will have killed off most of the earth's population and rendered everything but the north and south poles uninhabitable.

What convinced you God exists or doesn't exist?

Hi Thrillobyte. Good evening. You are wrong. Yahweh was not a minor Canaanite mighty one. Yahweh is the name of the Elohim of Israel, and going back further than than that the Mighty One of Adam and Eve and all those down through history who adhered to his Laws. You may have chosen to go full atheist. That suggests to me that you were partially on your way there before that. If that's the case, it may be that you didn't have an answer to your prayers because you were double-minded (Jacob / James 1:6-8). In my mind, anyone who is true to themselves with the doctrines of the Bible will find themselves in the Assemblies of Yahweh. The reason we know Yahshua the Messiah existed is because of the fact that he fulfils the prophesies regarding him in the Hebrew Scriptures of a suffering Messiah that would come before a reigning Messiah. We all have to suffer before we are allowed entrance in to the Kingdom. Yahweh's son was no exception. We all have to be humbled, before we receive honour, we read in the Proverbs.

I agree that the world is a cruel and unjust place, but you don't seem to ask yourself why. It's because Yahweh's Word has been rejected. You call us an "accident", but intelligence doesn't come about by accident. If you heard a symphony, would you assume that it was created by accident, or that someone composed it intelligently? Why then should you call us a "tremendously complex accident". It's an insult to Yahweh when you call His planned creation an accident. It doesn't even make sense.

If life evolved in outer space as easily as some people believe, many extraterrestrial “civilizations” should exist, especially on planets around stars that evolutionists claim are older than our Sun. Some civilizations should even be technologically superior to ours, would have recognized that earth has abundant life, and would have tried to reach us. Any superior civilization within our galaxy would probably have already explored our solar system, at least with robots. Because we have no verifiable evidence of any of this, intelligent extraterrestrial life probably does not exist, certainly within our Milky Way Galaxy. Almost all stories of unidentified flying objects (UFOs) have since been traced to natural or manmade causes. Even if technically advanced flying objects exist, they may have a terrestrial, not extraterrestrial, origin. The United States, for example, developed and flew the superfast SR-71 aircraft and its prototype several years before most senior military officers in the United States knew such technology was possible. Evidence that UFOs are from extraterrestrial civilizations, although not disproved, has not been verified and usually relies on the truthfulness, rationality, and accuracy of a few alleged witnesses.

I don't know why you call Yahweh a pagan Elohim. All other mighty ones are pagan, Yahweh is not. Yahweh's Name is the most frequently used term in the Hebrew Bible appearing 6,823 times. It's his holy and sanctified name that I personally love because it is derived from the verb of existence. If we want to exist, we have to come to rely and love the Name of Yahweh. Yahweh has commanded that we use His Name in scriptures like Isaiah 42:8. It does sadden me that you have got the wrong end of the stick with thinking that using His Name is somehow wrong, when the fact is, not using His Name is the problem. Using inferior titles used to address the mighty ones of the world is wrong (such as L-rd, or G-d). Maybe once I have more time we can follow up on this conversation.

 

[Thrillobyte]

Hi Thrillobyte. Good evening. You are wrong. Yahweh was not a minor Canaanite mighty one. Yahweh is the name of the Elohim of Israel, and going back further than than that the Mighty One of Adam and Eve and all those down through history who adhered to his Laws. You may have chosen to go full atheist. That suggests to me that you were partially on your way there before that. If that's the case, it may be that you didn't have an answer to your prayers because you were double-minded (Jacob / James 1:6-8). In my mind, anyone who is true to themselves with the doctrines of the Bible will find themselves in the Assemblies of Yahweh. The reason we know Yahshua the Messiah existed is because of the fact that he fulfils the prophesies regarding him in the Hebrew Scriptures of a suffering Messiah that would come before a reigning Messiah. We all have to suffer before we are allowed entrance in to the Kingdom. Yahweh's son was no exception. We all have to be humbled, before we receive honour, we read in the Proverbs.

I agree that the world is a cruel and unjust place, but you don't seem to ask yourself why. It's because Yahweh's Word has been rejected. You call us an "accident", but intelligence doesn't come about by accident. If you heard a symphony, would you assume that it was created by accident, or that someone composed it intelligently? Why then should you call us a "tremendously complex accident". It's an insult to Yahweh when you call His planned creation an accident. It doesn't even make sense.

If life evolved in outer space as easily as some people believe, many extraterrestrial “civilizations” should exist, especially on planets around stars that evolutionists claim are older than our Sun. Some civilizations should even be technologically superior to ours, would have recognized that earth has abundant life, and would have tried to reach us. Any superior civilization within our galaxy would probably have already explored our solar system, at least with robots. Because we have no verifiable evidence of any of this, intelligent extraterrestrial life probably does not exist, certainly within our Milky Way Galaxy. Almost all stories of unidentified flying objects (UFOs) have since been traced to natural or manmade causes. Even if technically advanced flying objects exist, they may have a terrestrial, not extraterrestrial, origin. The United States, for example, developed and flew the superfast SR-71 aircraft and its prototype several years before most senior military officers in the United States knew such technology was possible. Evidence that UFOs are from extraterrestrial civilizations, although not disproved, has not been verified and usually relies on the truthfulness, rationality, and accuracy of a few alleged witnesses.

I don't know why you call Yahweh a pagan Elohim. All other mighty ones are pagan, Yahweh is not. Yahweh's Name is the most frequently used term in the Hebrew Bible appearing 6,823 times. It's his holy and sanctified name that I personally love because it is derived from the verb of existence. If we want to exist, we have to come to rely and love the Name of Yahweh. Yahweh has commanded that we use His Name in scriptures like Isaiah 42:8. It does sadden me that you have got the wrong end of the stick with thinking that using His Name is somehow wrong, when the fact is, not using His Name is the problem. Using inferior titles used to address the mighty ones of the world is wrong (such as L-rd, or G-d). Maybe once I have more time we can follow up on this conversation.

Hi Thrillobyte. Good evening. You are wrong. Yahweh was not a minor Canaanite mighty one. Yahweh is the name of the Elohim of Israel, and going back further than than that the Mighty One of Adam and Eve and all those down through history who adhered to his Laws. You may have chosen to go full atheist. That suggests to me that you were partially on your way there before that. If that's the case, it may be that you didn't have an answer to your prayers because you were double-minded (Jacob / James 1:6-8). In my mind, anyone who is true to themselves with the doctrines of the Bible will find themselves in the Assemblies of Yahweh. The reason we know Yahshua the Messiah existed is because of the fact that he fulfils the prophesies regarding him in the Hebrew Scriptures of a suffering Messiah that would come before a reigning Messiah. We all have to suffer before we are allowed entrance in to the Kingdom. Yahweh's son was no exception. We all have to be humbled, before we receive honour, we read in the Proverbs.

I agree that the world is a cruel and unjust place, but you don't seem to ask yourself why. It's because Yahweh's Word has been rejected. You call us an "accident", but intelligence doesn't come about by accident. If you heard a symphony, would you assume that it was created by accident, or that someone composed it intelligently? Why then should you call us a "tremendously complex accident". It's an insult to Yahweh when you call His planned creation an accident. It doesn't even make sense.

If life evolved in outer space as easily as some people believe, many extraterrestrial “civilizations” should exist, especially on planets around stars that evolutionists claim are older than our Sun. Some civilizations should even be technologically superior to ours, would have recognized that earth has abundant life, and would have tried to reach us. Any superior civilization within our galaxy would probably have already explored our solar system, at least with robots. Because we have no verifiable evidence of any of this, intelligent extraterrestrial life probably does not exist, certainly within our Milky Way Galaxy. Almost all stories of unidentified flying objects (UFOs) have since been traced to natural or manmade causes. Even if technically advanced flying objects exist, they may have a terrestrial, not extraterrestrial, origin. The United States, for example, developed and flew the superfast SR-71 aircraft and its prototype several years before most senior military officers in the United States knew such technology was possible. Evidence that UFOs are from extraterrestrial civilizations, although not disproved, has not been verified and usually relies on the truthfulness, rationality, and accuracy of a few alleged witnesses.

I don't know why you call Yahweh a pagan Elohim. All other mighty ones are pagan, Yahweh is not. Yahweh's Name is the most frequently used term in the Hebrew Bible appearing 6,823 times. It's his holy and sanctified name that I personally love because it is derived from the verb of existence. If we want to exist, we have to come to rely and love the Name of Yahweh. Yahweh has commanded that we use His Name in scriptures like Isaiah 42:8. It does sadden me that you have got the wrong end of the stick with thinking that using His Name is somehow wrong, when the fact is, not using His Name is the problem. Using inferior titles used to address the mighty ones of the world is wrong (such as L-rd, or G-d). Maybe once I have more time we can follow up on this conversation.

Well, everything you say and everything I say is in a vacuum, right Israelite? Because we have no solid verifiable proof for either of our positions. It's all a matter of faith--your position and my position. IOW's you have no scientifically verifiable proof yahweh is real and I have no scientifically verifiable proof he is not.

Now with regard to your post, I will address each of your points in order with my own statement. I won't quote you each time, that's too much work but I'm sure you'll be able to follow:

Yahweh WAS a minor Canaanite god. Here's the authority citation

According to Amzallag [Jewish researcher], long before becoming the deity of the Israelites, Yahweh was a god of metallurgy in the ancient Canaanite pantheon, worshipped by smelters and metalworkers throughout the Levant, not just by the Hebrews.
https://www.haaretz.com/archaeology...w-theory/0000017f-dc86-d3ff-a7ff-fda6aa390000

God, if he exists, never touched my life in any way. Far as he was concerned I didn't exist so far as I'm concerned he doesn't exist. He doesn't touch my life in any manner. My life compared to before when i was a believer has not changed one iota now that I am an atheist. Actually it has gotten much better because now I don't have all the religious baggage to cart around. There isn't a nickel's worth of evidence historically that Jesus or the disciples existed, that's good enough for to conclude Jesus was just a mythical being. If God wanted us to believe in Jesus he would have left a mountain of evidence for Jesus's existence but he didn't leave anything behind. So Jesus didn't exist and God doesn't care if I believe that Jesus exists or not.

I don't discount there might be some kind of higher power out there that created the universe. I'm agnostic on that point. This higher power doesn't react with the world in any scientifically discernible way. No miracles, no answered prayers. That's a fact. The world IS a cruel unjust place full of pain. Any intelligent god who cared about us could have done it a whole lot better that what he did, but he didn't. So he's either stupid as hell or just plain doesn't care. Other alien civilizations may exist, I have no idea. They don't affect me in the least. If these UFO's are terrestrial I couldn't care less.

I call Yahweh a pagan god because Jewish researchers have found archeological evidence that early Hebrews lived among the Canaanites and adopted their gods. Early research shows Yahweh originally was a god of metallurgy. It was much later that the Israelites (israEL--EL, the major Canaanite god, get it?) adopted Yahweh as their main god and from there it was a monotheistic religion. This doesn't offer any evidence that Yahweh is a real god as opposed to any other pagan gods. You say yahweh is real and all other pagan gods are false. Muslims say Allah is is the real god and all other gods including Yahweh are false pagan. So which of you is correct--you, because you believe Yahweh is the real one?????? How absurd.

Sure, we can continue if you want. have a nice day.

 

[millerdog]

Nice question. I was agnostic for most of my life. Then I started questioning my belief. And started developing my own beliefs. And through that I had a spiritual experience and my life suddenly changed. Never looked back either

 

[Thrillobyte]

Nice question. I was agnostic for most of my life. Then I started questioning my belief. And started developing my own beliefs. And through that I had a spiritual experience and my life suddenly changed. Never looked back either

Billions of people have their own unique mystical and religious experiences. I imagine that's why there are so many religions. If Christianity was the true religion we'd all be Christian, right? We'd have daily encounters with God and Jesus and do what he commands and the world would be a better place I imagine. But religious people have no encounters with their deities except in their head. God has never grown a new limb on an amputee but he sure cures billions of headaches and helps millions of people find their lost car keys, doesn't he?

 

[Ponder This]

We don't know that a Jesus character said that. That quote was written by an anonymous Greek scholar circa 90 CE, some 60 years after Jesus is purported to have been crucified. Nothing Jesus said was ever written down by anybody from that era so how could the writers of Matthew know Jesus said that?

Let me remind the readers that we have absolutely NOTHING that can be tied to Jesus' existence. He left no writings, no artifacts, there are no reliefs, no busts, no sculpts, no mention by any historians from that period--and all this includes the apostles--nothing! People who want to throw away their lives believing in a character for which there isn't a nickel's worth of evidence he ever existed are perfectly free to do so, but remember: you only get one life and then it's over. Live it wisely. Don't throw it away on fairytales.

If God really wanted is to believe in Jesus, God would have left enough evidence behind as tall as a mountain. But God didn't. He didn't even leave behind an anthill. All he left behind were four anonymous tales of a prophet named Jesus that were written half a century to a century after Jesus' supposed death that are filled with errors in geography, conflicting details, wrong genealogies, materials inserted 500 years later, and many more discrepancies. These are not perfect accounts. In fact they are so badly written as a whole that historians won't even take them seriously as reliable historical documents.

Nothing in your response addresses spiritual experiences.

 

[Sheldon]

Blah blah...I'm not trying to convince you.

Blah blah blah, you're relentlessly irrational, but don't seem to care.

What's funny is you think it will go unnoticed. Or that you can wave it away like this.

 

[Sheldon]

"Where two or more are gathered in my name, I am there."

"Expelliarmus. The Disarming Charm, as the name implies, enables the user to disarm another wizard or witch in a duel by forcing their wand out of their hand"

Spiritual experiences are the means to the observation of spiritual realities.

Circular reasoning fallacy.

 

[Sheldon]

I am sure you can't show even one real error in the Bible

“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30

“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18

 

[Sheldon]

Bible. I think people are too stupid and evil to make it on their own without God.

Do you have anything beyond your subjective arrogant claim, to support this belief?

 

[Sheldon]

The Bible makes sense to me moreso than something always in the universe with or without a beginning. For instance, what was there before the supposed Big Bang?

God of the gaps, this is an irrational use of an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy.

Not knowing is not knowing, it is not evidence of anything, let alone any supernatural deity.

 

[Sheldon]

God promises action and He has acted in the past. Particularly in the book of Revelation The famous scene of the horsemen and their ride.

That is an unevidenced subjective claim.

 

[Sheldon]

I have come to a different conclusion than Dr. Ehrman about the accuracy of the gospel accounts and the historicity of Jesus and the early Christians.

Cool, publish your research and historical experts can compare the validity of the two positions. In the mean time, I am pointing an laughing at this bare assertion.

An indication of the truthfulness of the account is testified by many examples, including the destruction of the temple and the monument called the Arch of Titus referring to the conquest of Jerusalem by the Romans among others.

I don't believe you.

Also we have nonbiblical references to the Pharisees and the Sadducees. Among others.

So what? Also - citation please.

 

[YoursTrue]

“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30

“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18

That's not an error. It's your lack of understanding. Try again. Or don't try again.

 

[YoursTrue]

Blah blah blah, you're relentlessly irrational, but don't seem to care.

What's funny is you think it will go unnoticed. Or that you can wave it away like this.

Your arrogance and lack of comprehension and reasoning ability is obviously apparent.

 

[YoursTrue]

Polytheism convinced me.

There certainly are spirit persons that one cannot see. But then -- there was Moses which solidified understanding.

 

[YoursTrue]

Cool, publish your research and historical experts can compare the validity of the two positions. In the mean time, I am pointing an laughing at this bare assertion.



I don't believe you.



So what? Also - citation please.

I don't want you to believe me. You have to find out for yourself. Your assumptions, however, do not make sense.

 

[Thrillobyte]

It is relevant. Anyway, have a nice day. For me, I didn't always believe in God or the Bible. Now I do.

I always get this. "I don't care what you have to say, I'll always be a believer. Have a nice day." I know when somebody says that I hit a nerve. Anyway, have a nice day too, Yours. It's not my intention to destroy your faith. I know there are Christians and other religionists who wouldn't stop believing in Jesus even if God himself came down and said it's all baloney. My intention is to try to reach people who are sitting on the fence about making a decision for Christ. I want to warn them to check all the facts and investigate before they make a commitment to a mythological person.

 

[YoursTrue]

I always get this. "I don't care what you have to say, I'll always be a believer. Have a nice day." I know when somebody says that I hit a nerve. Anyway, have a nice day too, Yours. It's not my intention to destroy your faith. I know there are Christians and other religionists who wouldn't stop believing in Jesus even if God himself came down and said it's all baloney. My intention is to try to reach people who are sitting on the fence about making a decision for Christ. I want to warn them to check all the facts and investigate before they make a commitment to a mythological person.

I made my investigation. I am satisfied that I made the right choice. Because I believe that true faith is a gift from God I keep my comments as brief as possible. I know God is stronger, greater than I am. So I leave the rest up to God because from my experience I know He can do it. (reach a person.) When a person is approached by God's holy spirit, they know it.