God created evil

[BSM1]

So, Jay, are you saying that there is/was something here already when God showed up?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

So, Jay, are you saying that there is/was something here already when God showed up?

I'm sorry, but which part of ...

S/he never told me. I am addressing what I believe to be problematic translations of Biblical Hebrew. I prefer the JPS Torah which renders the opening lines of Genesis as:

When God began to create heaven and earth - the earth being unformed and void, ...​

with the following commentary:

2. unformed and void

The Hebrew for this phrase (tohu va-vohu) means "desert waste." The point of the narrative is the idea or order that results from divine intent. There is no suggestion here that God made the world out of nothing, which is a much later conception.​

do you not understand?

 

[BSM1]

Still not sure I see your point, Jay. Are you saying that in the process of creating a universe as we know it the Creator happened to see this mudball floating through space and decided that this was a great place to raise a family? If so, where did the mudball come from?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Still not sure I see your point, Jay.

That is most likely a case of willful ignorance.

Are you saying that in the process of creating a universe as we know it the Creator happened to see this mudball floating through space and decided that this was a great place to raise a family?

I am saying that your translation of Isaiah and josh120775's translation of Genesis is in dispute.

 

[BSM1]

That is most likely a case of willful ignorance.



I am saying that your translation of Isaiah and josh120775's translation of Genesis is in dispute.

Thanks for the flattery but I have never translated any OT text. I believe you meant to say that my understanding of Isaiah is in dispute. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just saying you haven't successfully made a case defending or even defining your understanding.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

As you wish ...

 

[josh120775]

I'd still like an answer to the question, because I truly am curious.

Jayhawker, is your understanding that in addition to God, there was something else that has always existed? If so, what? Did it always exist outside of God? Does it currently exist, or did God "use it up" to create all matter as we know it today? Did this other pre-existing "thing" use God up to create everything as we know it today?

 

[waitasec]

Evil?...as in doing harm?

Or evil as intention.... deliberate and destructive?

is there a difference....? :yes:


so i guess the passage is ambiguous....go figure.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I'd still like an answer to the question, because I truly am curious.

Me too.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

From the Etz Hayim commentary:

The first letter of the first word in the Torah, "b'rei****" is the Hebrew letter 'bet'. This prompted the Midrash to suggest that, just as the letter 'bet' in enclosed on three sides but open to the front, we ae not to speculate on the origins of God or what may have existed before Creation [Gen. R. 1:10]. The purpose of such a comment is not to limit scientific enquiry into the origins of the universe but to discourage efforts to prove the unprovable. ... The Torah begins with 'bet', second letter of the Hebrew alphabet, to summon us to begin even if we cannot begin at the very beginning.

 

[BSM1]

Well, this is a handy "fall-back" position for those who tell us not to question, don't you think?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

No, I do not.

 

[Thief]

Let's try this....

Correct and incorrect refer to the answers of questions.
Right and wrong refer to issues of morality.
Good and bad refer to the condition of a thing.
and good and evil refer to the nature of a thing.

So let's then say, you like being destructive and annoying.
Just because....no reason....you just feel that way.

God comes along and puts an end to you....destructively.

Was that a bad thing?
A correct thing?
an evil thing?
The wrong thing?

But with your mischief out of the way....won't we all feel better?

 

[Sleeppy]

Still not sure I see your point, Jay. Are you saying that in the process of creating a universe as we know it the Creator happened to see this mudball floating through space and decided that this was a great place to raise a family? If so, where did the mudball come from?

Is that the only option? What about creating of Himself?

 

[BSM1]

Is that the only option? What about creating of Himself?

Sort of the Cheshire cat thingy?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

In Genesis, it says God created everything out of nothing. By default, God HAD to create evil and allow it to exist, otherwise the opposite of good would just be nothing, as God wouldn't have created an alternative.

Please post where it says God created everything out of nothing ___________

According to Isaiah [40 vs 26,28] God supplied the energy force needed to create the material world.

See: Psalm 104 v 30; 36 v 9; Jeremiah 10 v 12; 32 v 17

Remember: Evil in Scripture is Not always synonymous with wrongdoing.
Jesus' words will be as sharp as an executioner's sword [an evil] against the wicked to protect the righteous. -Isaiah 11 vs 3,4; Rev. 19 vs 11,15

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What about creating of Himself?

God did not create Himself because God is the Creator.
God had no beginning [start] according to Psalm 90 v 2.
God always existed and will always exist.

 

[Sleeppy]

God did not create Himself because God is the Creator.
God had no beginning [start] according to Psalm 90 v 2.
God always existed and will always exist.

Creating of..

As in everything is created of God.. Not saying He created Himself.

 

[BSM1]

Creating of..

As in everything is created of God.. Not saying He created Himself.

Could happen. Now is God the thought or the thinker?

 

[BSM1]

Please post where it says God created everything out of nothing ___________

According to Isaiah [40 vs 26,28] God supplied the energy force needed to create the material world.

See: Psalm 104 v 30; 36 v 9; Jeremiah 10 v 12; 32 v 17

Remember: Evil in Scripture is Not always synonymous with wrongdoing.
Jesus' words will be as sharp as an executioner's sword [an evil] against the wicked to protect the righteous. -Isaiah 11 vs 3,4; Rev. 19 vs 11,15

Good Point. Now this opens up a whole new can of worms.