God did not create the Universe

[imjitin]

If God does not create the Universe(world) why every religion in every country say that there is some supreme power(God).

 

[PolyHedral]

Friend

A dead body has a brain yet a dead body does not say "I wish to live". I hope that there will be a reply.

The process of rationality is what is called mind. Yet do we know the mind?

Om

A dead body has a working brain? News to me.

If God does not create the Universe(world) why every religion in every country say that there is some supreme power(God).

Because we need a god for some other reason, probably to explain a very strange universe.

 

[atanu]

A dead body has a working brain? News to me.

Same to me. I think 'working' word was not there in my post. But the query revolved around: what makes the brain working?

Om

 

[outhouse]

If God does not create the Universe(world) why every religion in every country say that there is some supreme power(God).

its our imagination combined with fear and simply put its human nature

We make up things in our mind to rationalize what we do not know.

the first 100 years homo sapiens were on the planet 200,000 years ago, they surely had fire gods or spirits, rain spirits, thunder spirits ect.

As civilizations grow so do there religions and there beliefs grow to include a mythical beginning.

 

[zenzero]

Friend outhouse,

Appreciate your response which is in line with evolution.
We must also realize that that is how the mind too has evolved and later with the development of the mind, humans realised the possibility of transcending that very mind and merge with that energy which exists in different forms and no-forms and this path to realization is called religion as it is a discipline that one has to follow religiously to be able to merge with IT. It is not a question if one labels it *god* or not as it is a energy that is visible in all forms and no-forms and this TRUTH cannot be denied by anyone.

Love & rgds

 

[outhouse]

Friend outhouse,

Appreciate your response which is in line with evolution.
We must also realize that that is how the mind too has evolved and later with the development of the mind, humans realised the possibility of transcending that very mind and merge with that energy which exists in different forms and no-forms and this path to realization is called religion as it is a discipline that one has to follow religiously to be able to merge with IT. It is not a question if one labels it *god* or not as it is a energy that is visible in all forms and no-forms and this TRUTH cannot be denied by anyone.

Love & rgds

I like that excellent view

 

[zenzero]

Friend outhouse,

I like that excellent view

Truth does not need any one to view it as a *VIEW*; cause TRUTH stands *NAKED*.
The truth that all our friends including friend Skeptisch whose thread it is and anyone competent to see TRUTH in nakedness be they consider themselves scientists, atheists, theists, mormons, catholics, hindus, muslims, etc. etc. only qualifications required is an understanding as they are already evolved to a human and being they already are.

Love & rgds

 

[fantome profane]

Hi Outhouse

I said "A dead body has a brain yet a dead body does not say "I wish to live"".

I meant that a dead body has all the organs but it does not say "I". So, I meant to enquire as to who says "I", apparently from within?

Om

A living (working) brain creates delusions; this is true of your brain, my brain, and every living human brain. The delusion of “I” is only one of these delusions of the living brain. A dead brain cannot generate nor sustain these delusions.

 

[Skeptisch]

Truth does not need any one to view it as a *VIEW*; cause TRUTH stands *NAKED*.

Zenzero, if the religious fundamentalists would accept the truth you promote the world would be a better place.

It would also be a better place if more of us had a basic understanding of the laws of nature and recognize that these laws have never been altered, changed or suspended, not even by the deity that is supposed to have created and fine tuned them in the first place.
:magic:

 

[atanu]

A living (working) brain creates delusions; this is true of your brain, my brain, and every living human brain. The delusion of “I” is only one of these delusions of the living brain. A dead brain cannot generate nor sustain these delusions.

My understanding differs. If a thinking brain was always creating delusion then all spiritual teachers have spread delusion. And a drug addict or an unconscious person under swoon or sleep would be delusion less.

Vedic scripture, on the other hand, gives highest value to the ability to discriminate reality from 'tags', as a necessary condition for overcoming the effects of delusions.

For example a casual observer of a 'red hot iron ball' may believe the iron ball to be inherently hot or to be composed of fire. The contemplatives will discern that the 'hotness' is subtle and belongs to fire.

Similarly, an undiscerning person may believe and act based on the belief that the "I" awareness and subsequent awareness of world is natural property/capabilty of a blob of tissues called 'brain'. But a discerning person will know the "I" to be a vital subtle thought as separate and distinct.

 

[PolyHedral]

My understanding differs. If a thinking brain was always creating delusion then all spiritual teachers have spread delusion.

You say it like it's impossible.

For example a casual observer of a 'red hot iron ball' may believe the iron ball to be inherently hot or to be composed of fire. The contemplatives will discern that the 'hotness' is subtle and belongs to fire.

Fire is a reaction, not a concrete thing. It doesn't make sense for things to belong to it.

 

[atanu]

You say it like it's impossible.

Kindly read the sentence again. On the other hand, your assumption throws all rational thinking as delusions.

Fire is a reaction, not a concrete thing. It doesn't make sense for things to belong to it.

That is the point. The reverse is more apt, however. In a dead body, which is graspable, the subtle ungraspable "I am" does not arise. What is that concrete thing of which "I am" is an effect?

 

[PolyHedral]

What is that concrete thing of which "I am" is an effect?

The computer. Specifically, the brain. The brain's modelling of the world and the people in it gives rise to "I".

 

[atanu]

The computer. Specifically, the brain. The brain's modelling of the world and the people in it gives rise to "I".

Well. The graspable Brain that exists in a dead body does not say "I". Is your brain different from the mass of tissues that exists in dead body? I do not follow you, so I am asking.

 

[PolyHedral]

A living brain still works, and processes things. (For instance, registering activity on an ECG.) A dead brain is just an inert mass of dead cells.

 

[atanu]

A living brain still works, and processes things. (For instance, registering activity on an ECG.) A dead brain is just an inert mass of dead cells.

Thank you for the answer. But it does not solve my problem. The original question "Who?" remains. The following remains the question.

I meant that a dead body has all the organs but it does not say "I". So, I meant to enquire as to who says "I", apparently from within?

 

[PolyHedral]

"I" is a consequence is the brain's modelling of the world, which is a consequence of the brain processing sensory information. A dead brain does not do that processing, hence no "I". Who is not a meaningful question, because there isn't a who until the brain establishes "I".

 

[atanu]

"I" is a consequence is the brain's modelling of the world, which is a consequence of the brain processing sensory information. A dead brain does not do that processing, hence no "I". Who is not a meaningful question, because there isn't a who until the brain establishes "I".

Hi

Interesting no doubt. In order to understand you better.

Is the mass of tissues called 'dead brain', which exists in a dead body, the same computer that had created an "I" (and which switches itself off in a dead body)?

Or to paraphrase, can you please explain the brain you are talking about? Is it the same brain of conventional science -- a mass of tissues located inside head? It is important because terms should be understood in same or at least nearly same framework.

Om

 

[PolyHedral]

To begin with, yes, though it degrades quickly.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Skeptisch,

Zenzero, if the religious fundamentalists would accept the truth you promote the world would be a better place.

It would also be a better place if more of us had a basic understanding of the laws of nature and recognize that these laws have never been altered, changed or suspended, not even by the deity that is supposed to have created and fine tuned them in the first place.

Sorry, you missed the point. There is no one here to promote anything.
Truth is standing on its own and needs no promoters.
The idea is not to stand where truth is standing.
When you understand IT
Then TRUTH IS!

Love & rgds