Ancient Soul
The Spiritual Universe
You can reject the Christian/bible verses/claims that I posted all you want. I'm just showing that there is no exclusions written there, it's just excuses they make up because prayers never work.
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God does not answer prayers
- Thread starter BlueSky95
- Start date
You can reject the Christian/bible verses/claims that I posted all you want. I'm just showing that there is no exclusions written there, it's just excuses they make up because prayers never work.
Why do you put such great store by NDE's? What if they are a ruse used by the demons to trick people into believing something that is not true?...that life continues on in spirit form after the death of the body?
According to Solomon, (the wisest man who ever lived apart from Jesus, son of God) the dead are not alive at all. They know nothing, feel nothing, and can do nothing.
Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10....
"For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten. 6 Indeed their love, their hate and their zeal have already perished, and they will no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun. . . . Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might; for there is no activity or planning or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol [the grave] where you are going."
Imagine......even their "love" has perished...how can that be? "Sheol" is the common grave of mankind....we are all going there.
Go back to Genesis....what was it that made Adam a "soul"?
Genesis 2:7...
"Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being [soul]."
The "breath of life" in the original language is the "spirit". So spirit is the animator...that indefinable 'spark' that instigates breathing. A spark that is extinguished when we take out last breath. (Psalm 146:4)
What was Adam before God breathed life into him? He was a dead body. He "became" a "soul" [a living being] only when God started him breathing. The spirit has no personality any more than electricity takes on the qualities of the machinery it powers.
So what did God tell Adam would happen to him when he died?....heaven?...hell?...some kind of spiritual afterlife?
Genesis 3:17-19....
"And to Adam he said: “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. 18 It will grow thorns and thistles for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”
Adam was simply going back to where he came from......where were you before your parents conceived you? You did not exist and death takes all of us back there. Any prospect for future life is by resurrection....a very much misunderstood concept.
Why would the devil want us to believe in life after death? Because it perpetuates the first lie he told the woman in Eden...."you surely will not die". God clearly told Adam that he would...so who lied?
Or they are demonic tricks to convince people of the lie.
Did you know that one of the things forbidden to God's people was necromancy? That is communication with the dead, which was commonly practiced by the pagan nations, especially in Canaan. All forms of spiritism were banned....and for good reason.
Deuteronomy 18:9-12...
“When you enter the land which the Lord your God gives you, you shall not learn to imitate the detestable things of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to the Lord; and because of these detestable things the Lord your God will drive them out before you."
God cleared out all the practicers of spiritism from the land because they were a spiritual threat to the worship of his people. He said what they did was "detestable" to him.
If you recall King Saul's encounter with the witch of Endor.....he himself was used by God to rid the land of spirit mediums, but when he defected from God and was abandoned by him, in desperation he found the last remaining medium and asked her to call up the dead prophet Samuel. He said that the living prophets would not speak to him because he had broken God's law and God had withdrawn his spirit from him....he was actually losing his sanity.
The medium brought up someone whom she claimed was Samuel. She described him to Saul as only she could see and hear "him". If God's living prophets would not communicate with Saul, why would a dead prophet speak to him via a means that God had outlawed? (1 Samuel ch 28) Think about that.
What do the demons have to gain by impersonating the dead? They serve their Master by perpetuating his first lie. Deception is their stock in trade. Humans are programmed to live forever, so this idea taps into that desire to go on living. Death only entered their lives through disobedience. (Genesis 2:16-17) When he passed sentence, God said...
“Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life." (Genesis 3:22-24)
The" tree of life" was placed off limits because this was their means of living "forever".
Does it strike you as odd that so many people who have NDE's, experience them according to their own belief system? Some have experienced the horrors of "hell" or something akin to a bad acid trip. Does it also strike you as odd that so many people do not have NDE's in the same circumstances?
Why would God forbid us from speaking to our loved ones just because they have passed away? If you could speak with them in life...why not in death, if that who they really are?
Take the example of Lazarus (John 11:11-14).....where did Jesus say that Lazarus was? He had been dead for four days, and in the middle eastern heat, would have started to decompose, according to his sister. (John 11:39)
Did Lazarus have any recollection of where he had been? He said nothing about being somewhere else for four days. And we would have to ask...if Lazarus was in a happy and blissful place, why would Jesus bring him back, only to die again?
What do you think?
Ancient Soul
The Spiritual Universe
What a depressingly wicked viewpoint!
Is THIS how the JWs have made you view the world? Yikes!!!
I would like to see your "proof" that NDEs have anything to do with demons tricking people.
As to your comment of:
"Why would the devil want us to believe in life after death? Because it perpetuates the first lie he told the woman in Eden...."you surely will not die". God clearly told Adam that he would...so who lied?"
And yet Adam did NOT die that very day, so it was the Christian "god" who lied.
Then there's your other falsehood of:
"Does it strike you as odd that so many people who have NDE's, experience them according to their own belief system?"
I had my NDE/OBE when I was so young that I could not possibly have preconceived beliefs, religious or otherwise. Yet I was judged by God, found blameless, then shown many spiritual matters before being returned to life. It wasn't until years later that I learned of peoples concepts that fit some of what I experienced.
And in closing, if there is no "afterlife" as you claim, then does that mean the JWs tell you not to believe in "Heaven"?
Ancient Soul
The Spiritual Universe
I disagree.
One of the very first things God had shown me during my childhood NDE/OBE was all about my soul. And I've used that information to exist as just my soul countless times thru out my lifetime when seeking spiritual answers/experiences, so I'm well versed on the matter. So I know that the soul is the sum total of who "you" really are, and while people like to break everything down into little parts, one's soul is basically a sphere of one's mind energy with no "parts".
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
If virtually anything that happens is considered an answer, how do you distinguish that from chance?
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
That is not what i said
The sign will stand out from the ordenary in life, i know when my prayer has been answered because life change toward the better. Or i learn how to change it to the better.
If I may....
First of all, this is a wicked world! Why? Because as the Bible says at 1 John 5:19, “the whole world is lying in the power of the Wicked One.”
That’s the Bible, not JW’s.
Further, the Bible states that the Wicked One, i.e., the Devil, is “misleading the entire inhabited Earth.” In every way imaginable! Just look at the confusion and disunity, plaguing almost every aspect of human society.
Secondly, the dead “know nothing.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 146:3-4; cf. Genesis 3:19)
The only hope held out in the Bible, for the dead to live again, is the hope of the future (Acts of the Apostles 24:15) Resurrection .... which means “coming back to life.”
How can the dead ‘come back to life’ ....if they’re already living?
Whoa....settle down ol' fella....
Well, I must say that for someone who identifies with no religion, you certainly have some very religious viewpoints. I am assuming that they do not pertain to the God of the Bible?
What is wicked or depressing about "sleeping in death"? Not suffering...not conscious of all the turmoil here on earth....not fretting about loved ones still stuck here.
I gave you the example of the spirit medium at Endor and Saul's encounter with the prophet "Samuel".
The demons were having a lend of him because he had defected from his God and had flouted his laws.
It was the Bible's teaching about death (rather than the church's) that first got me interested in what JW's taught. It resonated with me immediately.
NDE's can happen to anyone, but who said that the ideas portrayed in them have to come from us?
Really? I believe that the apostle Peter explained it well...
2 Peter 3:8...
"But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day."
God told the first humans that they would die within that "day".....and it was true.....a day to God is 1,000 years so read up and see that not a single human has made it to a thousand years old.
The devil lied, so God told the truth, as he always does.
Those who have had NDE's must understand that they were not dead.....it is a "near death" experience, not an "after death" experience. There are actually demonstrated medical explanations for the delusions caused by an oxygen starved brain....what better situation could the demons have for implanting their ideas? How vulnerable are those in such circumstances?
As I mentioned, who said that NDE's come from us? And who said that children can't have them. The demons couldn't care who they use. Its like the young children who seem to have "past lives" that they remember quite vividly.
The demons ability to influence thoughts could explain that too. They can implant ideas in people's heads....even in the minds of young children....and they can blind people to the truth. ( 2 Corinthians 4:3-4)
Does it seem strange to you that someone like Hitler could never have achieved what he did without those of like-mind all around him? Who created their evil agenda and fostered that level of evil in so many men? The word "inhuman" is often used when describing what these monsters do.....what does that word mean? It means "not human"......that says it all really IMO.
We believe the Bible....and there was never a "heaven or hell" scenario ever held out to the Jews or to the Christians. God placed "life or death" before the Jews and told them to choose life (Deuteronomy 30:19-20)......how were they to do that? By their obedience to the teachings of God's word....his instruction manual.
Go back to Eden and read Genesis and see what God's original purpose was for this earth......it was humans enjoying everlasting life in paradise.....UNLESS they disobeyed one simple command......that act of disobedience would have repercussions for thousands of years to come. But at the end of the day, God would return us to what he intended for mankind at the beginning.
In sending his son to earth to choose certain ones for a role in the Kingdom of God, and to teach them the truth from God's word, it opened up a possibility that the Jews had never thought of.....that God's Kingdom, with Messiah at the helm, would rule from heaven over this earth, and bring us back to God's first purpose. (Isaiah 55:11)
Before he offered his life as a ransom for mankind, he helped them to understand that he was returning to heaven to prepare a place for them, but it wasn't until Pentecost that they fully understood that they would rule with Christ in heaven, over earthly subjects. That meant that only a relative "few" would go to heaven and these only were chosen by God for that role.
So yes, we do believe in some "chosen ones" going to heaven, but the majority of mankind will reside on this lovingly prepared Earth, where God put us in the first place. (Revelation 14:1-5; Revelation 20:6; Revelation 21:3-4) The majority of those subjects will return to life by means of a resurrection....something that Christendom has completely lost sight of. (John 5:28-29)
That Kingdom is about to take over the rulership of this earth....and nothing can stop it. (Daniel 2:44)
Bring it on!
Well, I must say that for someone who identifies with no religion, you certainly have some very religious viewpoints. I am assuming that they do not pertain to the God of the Bible?
What is wicked or depressing about "sleeping in death"? Not suffering...not conscious of all the turmoil here on earth....not fretting about loved ones still stuck here.
I gave you the example of the spirit medium at Endor and Saul's encounter with the prophet "Samuel".
The demons were having a lend of him because he had defected from his God and had flouted his laws.
It was the Bible's teaching about death (rather than the church's) that first got me interested in what JW's taught. It resonated with me immediately.
NDE's can happen to anyone, but who said that the ideas portrayed in them have to come from us?
Really? I believe that the apostle Peter explained it well...
2 Peter 3:8...
"But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day."
God told the first humans that they would die within that "day".....and it was true.....a day to God is 1,000 years so read up and see that not a single human has made it to a thousand years old.
The devil lied, so God told the truth, as he always does.
Those who have had NDE's must understand that they were not dead.....it is a "near death" experience, not an "after death" experience. There are actually demonstrated medical explanations for the delusions caused by an oxygen starved brain....what better situation could the demons have for implanting their ideas? How vulnerable are those in such circumstances?
As I mentioned, who said that NDE's come from us? And who said that children can't have them. The demons couldn't care who they use. Its like the young children who seem to have "past lives" that they remember quite vividly.
The demons ability to influence thoughts could explain that too. They can implant ideas in people's heads....even in the minds of young children....and they can blind people to the truth. ( 2 Corinthians 4:3-4)
Does it seem strange to you that someone like Hitler could never have achieved what he did without those of like-mind all around him? Who created their evil agenda and fostered that level of evil in so many men? The word "inhuman" is often used when describing what these monsters do.....what does that word mean? It means "not human"......that says it all really IMO.
We believe the Bible....and there was never a "heaven or hell" scenario ever held out to the Jews or to the Christians. God placed "life or death" before the Jews and told them to choose life (Deuteronomy 30:19-20)......how were they to do that? By their obedience to the teachings of God's word....his instruction manual.
Go back to Eden and read Genesis and see what God's original purpose was for this earth......it was humans enjoying everlasting life in paradise.....UNLESS they disobeyed one simple command......that act of disobedience would have repercussions for thousands of years to come. But at the end of the day, God would return us to what he intended for mankind at the beginning.
In sending his son to earth to choose certain ones for a role in the Kingdom of God, and to teach them the truth from God's word, it opened up a possibility that the Jews had never thought of.....that God's Kingdom, with Messiah at the helm, would rule from heaven over this earth, and bring us back to God's first purpose. (Isaiah 55:11)
Before he offered his life as a ransom for mankind, he helped them to understand that he was returning to heaven to prepare a place for them, but it wasn't until Pentecost that they fully understood that they would rule with Christ in heaven, over earthly subjects. That meant that only a relative "few" would go to heaven and these only were chosen by God for that role.
So yes, we do believe in some "chosen ones" going to heaven, but the majority of mankind will reside on this lovingly prepared Earth, where God put us in the first place. (Revelation 14:1-5; Revelation 20:6; Revelation 21:3-4) The majority of those subjects will return to life by means of a resurrection....something that Christendom has completely lost sight of. (John 5:28-29)
That Kingdom is about to take over the rulership of this earth....and nothing can stop it. (Daniel 2:44)
Bring it on!
It seems that every individual has an experience that reflects his/her inner way of understanding the nature of reality.
The dead "know nothing" but the rich man in Jesus's story was very much aware of this world and of the place where he was found, so the dead know one or two things, I know it's hard for some people to understand that the scriptures reflect people's understanding of God and of the afterlife and not the ultimate truth.
nPeace
Veteran Member
I reject your claim, not the Bible.
You made a claim. Pulled a few scriptures out the Bible, which does not support your claim. Declare that they do,
That's not how it works.
That's the same thing the cult members like David Koresh, and Jim Jones did. It's the same thing crooks like Jim Baker and other TV Evangelist do.
That's hideous, don't you think?
None of the scriptures you pulled out says or shows that God is supposed to do anything... much less answer all prayers.
To the contrary, the scriptures say he does not answer all prayers.
(1 Samuel 14:37) And Saul inquired of God: “Should I go down after the Philistines? Will you give them into the hand of Israel?” But God did not answer him on that day.
(1 Samuel 8:18) The day will come when you will cry out because of the king you have chosen for yourselves, but Jehovah will not answer you in that day.”
(Proverbs 28:9) The one refusing to listen to the law -Even his prayer is detestable.
(Psalm 66:18) If I had harbored anything hurtful in my heart, Jehovah would not have heard me.
(Proverbs 15:29) Jehovah is far away from the wicked, But he hears the prayer of the righteous.
(Isaiah 1:15) And when you spread out your palms, I hide my eyes from you. Although you offer many prayers, I am not listening; Your hands are filled with blood.
For our prayers to be heard, and answered...
1) We must produce righteous fruit, and acknowledge Jesus Christ's role in God's will - asking in his name.
(John 15:16) You did not choose me, but I chose you, and I appointed you to go and keep bearing fruit and that your fruit should remain, so that no matter what you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
(John 16:23) . . .if you ask the Father for anything, he will give it to you in my name.
2) Our prayers must be in harmony, or according to God's will
(1 John 5:14) . . .And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that no matter what we ask according to his will, he hears us.
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Hello, I hope your day will be a good one.
When you read the surrounding context of Like 16, you will find it is a parable, i.e., an illustration. (Matthew 13:34, "Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable.")
That being the case, it didn't reflect reality.
For a discussion on the different aspects of it, here is a link: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200274905
Take care.
Hi, hope yours is too!
Well, maybe to you it is a parable but for others it is not, every christian denomination with its own version of things. I already discussed with some JW and they have no desire to admit their roots in free masonry, which is very active now within JW itself. A picture from satellite of JW's conference hall from Denmark, this is just one location, I found two. Do the research and you can even find the exact address and look it up on google map, I already done this.
bfguzfalmwr21
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Same here.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
None of the verses say anything about ALL people.
None of the verses say that ALL the prayers of ALL people will be answered.
Jesus was talking to His disciples.
John 14:14
King James Version (KJV)
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
John 16:23
King James Version (KJV)
23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
John 14:13
King James Version (KJV)
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Matthew 18:19
King James Version (KJV)
19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
John 15:16
King James Version (KJV)
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Matthew 21:21-22
21 Jesus answered and said unto them, verily i say unto you, if ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
22 and all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
Mark 11:24-25
24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
If you read it literally, it’s is a bit ridiculous. The rich man was not said to be wicked, only that he was rich and uncaring for the poor. The beggar was not said to be righteous, but hungry and trying to subsist on the crumbs falling from the rich man’s table.
Both of them died and changed places. The “bosom of Abraham” was symbolic of having God’s favor.....the rich man lost it and the beggar gained it. Now think about it....can a drop of water cool the tongue of someone in a fire?
The rich man represented the Pharisees who treated the “lost sheep” (the spiritually impoverished ones that Jesus was sent to) as thought they were beneath their efforts to help them....these ones were pictured by the beggar. Their deaths symbolise the transfer of God’s favor from the self-righteous Pharisees, to the poor, starving lost ones in Israel who were specifically the target audience for Jesus. The Pharisees chided him for keeping company with “tax collectors and sinners”.
Membership in Freemasonry was very common in the early part of the 19th and 20th centuries because of the belief that it was thought to be a noble organization, with noble principles. JW’s do not endorse Freemasonry in any way, despite the fact that some early members may have been members. But like our former membership in Christendom’s churches, it is a process of coming to terms with why there was a need to separate from those organisations.
The Freemasonry symbol is on the gravestone of one of our founding members.....and I assure you that if he was able, he would have it removed....but it is against the law to desecrate a grave.
Our exit from connection to many organisations was a gradual process as we examined them all under the microscope of scripture. We stand alone today. We are no part of Christendom or any other organization that God would not approve.
And what is it that makes you think that we are in any way connected to Freemasonry today?...and in Denmark of all places?
Please don’t believe everything you see, or fall for the lies and twisted half truths that are suggested on the net.
Get your information from the horse’s mouth......how would you like an enemy to tell people about you? Would it be the truth or a twisted version of it? Please understand that there is nothing new in satan’s arsenal......look what he did to God’s own son....(John 15:18-21)
Ancient Soul
The Spiritual Universe
LOL!!!
I post about someone's depressingly wicked viewpoint, and you reply with a just as depressingly wicked viewpoint.
But thanks for posting it. I'm trying to show someone how Christians use FEAR mongering brainwashing to convert followers and your post is a perfect example it it.
Ancient Soul
The Spiritual Universe
Whoa....settle down ol' fella....
Well, I must say that for someone who identifies with no religion, you certainly have some very religious viewpoints. I am assuming that they do not pertain to the God of the Bible?
What is wicked or depressing about "sleeping in death"? Not suffering...not conscious of all the turmoil here on earth....not fretting about loved ones still stuck here.
I gave you the example of the spirit medium at Endor and Saul's encounter with the prophet "Samuel".
The demons were having a lend of him because he had defected from his God and had flouted his laws.
It was the Bible's teaching about death (rather than the church's) that first got me interested in what JW's taught. It resonated with me immediately.
NDE's can happen to anyone, but who said that the ideas portrayed in them have to come from us?
Really? I believe that the apostle Peter explained it well...
2 Peter 3:8...
"But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day."
God told the first humans that they would die within that "day".....and it was true.....a day to God is 1,000 years so read up and see that not a single human has made it to a thousand years old.
The devil lied, so God told the truth, as he always does.
Those who have had NDE's must understand that they were not dead.....it is a "near death" experience, not an "after death" experience. There are actually demonstrated medical explanations for the delusions caused by an oxygen starved brain....what better situation could the demons have for implanting their ideas? How vulnerable are those in such circumstances?
As I mentioned, who said that NDE's come from us? And who said that children can't have them. The demons couldn't care who they use. Its like the young children who seem to have "past lives" that they remember quite vividly.
The demons ability to influence thoughts could explain that too. They can implant ideas in people's heads....even in the minds of young children....and they can blind people to the truth. ( 2 Corinthians 4:3-4)
Does it seem strange to you that someone like Hitler could never have achieved what he did without those of like-mind all around him? Who created their evil agenda and fostered that level of evil in so many men? The word "inhuman" is often used when describing what these monsters do.....what does that word mean? It means "not human"......that says it all really IMO.
We believe the Bible....and there was never a "heaven or hell" scenario ever held out to the Jews or to the Christians. God placed "life or death" before the Jews and told them to choose life (Deuteronomy 30:19-20)......how were they to do that? By their obedience to the teachings of God's word....his instruction manual.
Go back to Eden and read Genesis and see what God's original purpose was for this earth......it was humans enjoying everlasting life in paradise.....UNLESS they disobeyed one simple command......that act of disobedience would have repercussions for thousands of years to come. But at the end of the day, God would return us to what he intended for mankind at the beginning.
In sending his son to earth to choose certain ones for a role in the Kingdom of God, and to teach them the truth from God's word, it opened up a possibility that the Jews had never thought of.....that God's Kingdom, with Messiah at the helm, would rule from heaven over this earth, and bring us back to God's first purpose. (Isaiah 55:11)
Before he offered his life as a ransom for mankind, he helped them to understand that he was returning to heaven to prepare a place for them, but it wasn't until Pentecost that they fully understood that they would rule with Christ in heaven, over earthly subjects. That meant that only a relative "few" would go to heaven and these only were chosen by God for that role.
So yes, we do believe in some "chosen ones" going to heaven, but the majority of mankind will reside on this lovingly prepared Earth, where God put us in the first place. (Revelation 14:1-5; Revelation 20:6; Revelation 21:3-4) The majority of those subjects will return to life by means of a resurrection....something that Christendom has completely lost sight of. (John 5:28-29)
That Kingdom is about to take over the rulership of this earth....and nothing can stop it. (Daniel 2:44)
Bring it on!
Your post makes me soooo THRILLED I'm not a Christian nor a JW. What a depressingly wicked viewpoint!!!
If THAT is the warped view Christianity and the JW cult gives you, everyone needs to RUN away from both as fast as they can!
Ancient Soul
The Spiritual Universe
Straw man reply.
None of those verses clearly pertains to PRAYERS not being answered.
Why resort to such deceit?