God has chosen to remain anonymous & mysterious over the millennia...

[timothy1027]

So in this, you not only support the existence of God, but that God chooses. What evidence do you have to support this?

My concrete evidence is as follows: "nobody has ever provided any proof or even convincing evidence that any Gods exists."
Over 8 years of praying, God never responded to ANY of my prayers. This is also true for many millions of other people worldwide.

 

[timothy1027]

Well, the fact that a belief in God/Gods has persisted up to this point suggests that what constitutes "convincing evidence" is a YMMV kind of thing.

YMMV?

 

[ajay0]

In over 4,423 years of religious scriptures (since 2,400 BCE), nobody has ever provided any proof or even convincing evidence that any Gods exists or not. Therefore, it is impossible for anyone to claim any of God's attributes (e.g., creator of the Universe, all-good, all-powerful, all-knowing, wise, perfect, jealous, loving) or what God wants, thinks, did, said, etc. etc. etc. As far as I can tell, God (if he exists) has chosen to remain anonymous & mysterious over the millennia. I don't make the rules, I just play the game (live a productive life). (Tim Barber updated 7/18/23).

Have you researched this subject thoroughly to come to a definite conclusion !

 

[Twilight Hue]

My concrete evidence is as follows: "nobody has ever provided any proof or even convincing evidence that any Gods exists."
Over 8 years of praying, God never responded to ANY of my prayers. This is also true for many millions of other people worldwide.

That is the reality. A number of people cannot accept that truth.

 

[Windwalker]

My concrete evidence is as follows: "nobody has ever provided any proof or even convincing evidence that any Gods exists."

Concrete evidence for God? Do you think God is a structure made of matter? Where do you find concrete evidence for love then?

Over 8 years of praying, God never responded to ANY of my prayers. This is also true for many millions of other people worldwide.

That is not evidence that God does not exist. That is evidence that those people have not had any experience of God that they can turn to in their own personal experience as evidence for themselves.

Let me give you a simple example. I practiced a sitting meditation for a brief period of time before I quickly found myself entering into these deeper states of consciousness every time I practiced. I was speaking with another meditator who had been practicing for 8 years at the time and I asked him about his experiences like this. He had none.

I was rather surprised by that. Here I had only been practicing for a few months and had these types of experiences of deeper states of consciousness, and he had for 8 straight years and never had anything like that. Would it have been valid for him to say my experiences in meditation (which are quite common actually), are not valid because he personally never experienced that himself? Isn't this what you are doing here?

While it may be true you've not experienced any "answers to prayer", or put another way, had any experience of God after seeking for 8 years, the same period of time as that meditator I spoke with, and millions of others were in your and his boat as well, does that negate the millions of others who do find experiences of the divine in their lives?

In other words, this isn't really a valid argument against God, because you couldn't find it in your given practices. Maybe it could be that that particular practice wasn't right for you? Maybe there's other obstacles in yourself that you or he, or anyone else hasn't been encountered yet in order to address? Deep, hidden things in the corners of our psyche's for instance? There are countless reasons why someone may not experience the transcendent in their lives, at that particular time. They could later, whereas before they couldn't. Or they simply just aren't "tuned" that way.

But to conclude it's not real because it didn't pan out for yourself, is making conclusions itself based upon subjective experience, no different than claiming claims of God based on subjective experience is not objective proof either. No difference.

 

[Windwalker]

That is the reality. A number of people cannot accept that truth.

It is also the reality that there are those who do experience that, and they could likewise accuse the others who don't as unable to accept that truth of God because their experience tells them God exists. Both sides are making the same error. They both imagine God is an object wholly external to themselves.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I chose not to keep that mental puppet anymore and put down Christianity when I realized God is completely ineffective and non existent in the waking world effectively shattering the rose colored glasses and the insular stained glass environment I had dwelled in for decades.

I now only need conversations with myself, the universe.

As Alan Watts puts it, "The real you".

So you abandoned God when He wouldn’t give you the things you wanted?

 

[Twilight Hue]

So you abandoned God when He wouldn’t give you the things you wanted?

Nope. I abandoned something that never was there in the first place.

 

[Windwalker]

Nope. I abandoned something that never was there in the first place.

For you.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Nope. I abandoned something that never was there in the first place.

But what was your reason for deciding that?

 

[RestlessSoul]

My concrete evidence is as follows: "nobody has ever provided any proof or even convincing evidence that any Gods exists."
Over 8 years of praying, God never responded to ANY of my prayers. This is also true for many millions of other people worldwide.

And yet many millions of others will tell you a different story; that for them, prayer works. It certainly has for me for many years, and it continues to work for me now.

 

[Astravalon]

YMMV?

YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary

 

[nPeace]

In over 4,423 years of religious scriptures (since 2,400 BCE), nobody has ever provided any proof or even convincing evidence that any Gods exists or not. Therefore, it is impossible for anyone to claim any of God's attributes (e.g., creator of the Universe, all-good, all-powerful, all-knowing, wise, perfect, jealous, loving) or what God wants, thinks, did, said, etc. etc. etc. As far as I can tell, God (if he exists) has chosen to remain anonymous & mysterious over the millennia. I don't make the rules, I just play the game (live a productive life). (Tim Barber updated 7/18/23).

If no one has provided any convincing evidence, why are millions convinced, among which are hundreds of atheists... well, former atheists?

 

[Twilight Hue]

But what was your reason for deciding that?

The people themselves , and an air conditioning unit in a church I frequented.

 

[Windwalker]

The people themselves , and an air conditioning unit in a church I frequented.

Alright, I have to know. What is it about an air conditioner that made you become an atheist?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Alright, I have to know. What is it about an air conditioner that made you become an atheist?

The pastor was preaching, quite often, on how God and the Angels were in this very room watching and participating in this very service, and on how everyone can see and feel God's presence around them.

So for a good time I was looking hard trying to get a glimpse of god and the angels presence in the service and watching a good number of folks yelling "praise God" and "I feel the spirit" and the like with a few saying they can see the angels etc.

Then while all this was going on, I noticed the only real actual thing happening in that room..

It was the air conditioning going on and off as the service proceeded. The only real actual thing there that was noticeable.

That was the point the rose colored glasses I was wearing shattered and I woke back up to reality right then and there.

 

[Windwalker]

The pastor was preaching, quite often, on how God and the Angels were in this very room watching and participating in this very service, and on how everyone can see and feel God's presence around them.

So for a good time I was looking hard trying to get a glimpse of god and the angels presence in the service and watching a good number of folks yelling "praise God" and "I feel the spirit" and the like with a few saying they can see the angels etc.

Then while all this was going on, I noticed the only real actual thing happening in that room..

It was the air conditioning going on and off as the service proceeded. The only real actual thing there that was noticeable.

That was the point the rose colored glasses I was wearing shattered and I woke back up to reality right then and there.

I thought you were going to say that you noticed a direct cause and effect relationship, that moments after the air conditioner turned back on, people said they felt the spirit moving, and when it went back off they all settled down again; when it came back on again they all started singing God's praises again, and so forth.

Sounds like you are describing a Pentecostal church? Out of curiosity was it a particular denomination?

Also, if you yourself had never felt anything like what they were describing, other than cooling effects of the AC that is, what is it you are describing as rose-colored glasses? Believing there was something to what they were saying, and then coming to the view that they were just delusional, basically just losing faith there might be something there?

Also, what age were you when that happened, if I may ask? BTW, I'm an ex-Pentecostal myself.

 

[Sir Joseph]

I guess I should now update my post to say, "nobody has ever provided any proof or even convincing evidence that any type of God or Gods (personal, community, etc) exists or not." What do you think?

For me, the proof of God's existence is evident simply by looking up at the night sky. That alone has convinced the vast majority of people in world, past and present, to believe in some type of god or supernatural being. But while philosophical, theological, and mathematical arguments have sufficed in the past to defend the existence of God, we're even more overwhelmed with scientific evidence available today from cosmology, astronomy, biology, biochemistry, geology, archaeology, and informational disciplines. It's patently false and irrational to boldly decry no evidence for God since there's abundant books, articles, videos, and museum displays presenting such evidence.

Excusing your OP's first incorrect premise Timothy 1027, you do better now in saying that you've never been presented with "convincing" evidence. That's a subjective statement that no one can deny - and sadly may be true. Ask yourself though, is it because you've never honestly researched the matter and remain ignorant of good evidence, or have you seen the evidence and chosen to reject it? In my experience with skeptics, I find the latter usually to be the case. I can show good evidence for God, but they draw different conclusions or dismiss it for no viable reason. Such is the case of all of my atheist friends and others who have a presuppositional world view. They want to hold onto that view, and thus are forced to reject any evidence that would threaten it.

A skeptic could reasonably counter that Christians hold a presuppositional Biblical world view that prevents them from interpreting any evidence against God. Well first, I'd say that most Christians no very little about such evidence and are content with their blind faith knowledge. An honest Christian apologist though would concede that there is some evidence supporting the godless argument - a good one being the all loving, all powerful God vs presence of pain and suffering in the world. The fact is that there's both evidence for and against God and to say otherwise is irrational.

For anyone holding a strong, godless world view, there's always a rescue device that will allow him to reject any presented evidence no matter how sound (like proposing an ort cloud source for short lived comets). I try not to waste my time with such skeptics since arguing is pointless. But for those seeking God that want to find evidence for him, I maintain that the preponderance of evidence for God's existence and the Bible's authority is overwhelming.

For anyone in the second category wanting a simple, small presentation of evidence for God, I recommend this YouTube video presentation from Charlie Campbell. You'll want to give yourself 45 minutes and spare yourself from the intro by starting at about 6:20 min.

Guest Speaker - Charlie Campbell

Guest Speaker - Charlie Campbell - Psalm 19 - Midweek Service - Moving Day - Creator - Cosmos Thank you for listening to our Tuesday Night ServiceFind us on....

www.youtube.com

 

[Kenny]

My concrete evidence is as follows:

1. "nobody has ever provided any proof or even convincing evidence that any Gods exists."
2. Over 8 years of praying, God never responded to ANY of my prayers. This is also true for many millions of other people worldwide.

1) Convincing proof may depend from one person to another. Apparently there is enough evidence to convince quite a few people from rich to poor, from scientist to the common worker et al.
2) That has too many factors. What did you pray; to whom did you pray; how did you pray; on the basis of what did you pray et al.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Over 8 years of praying, God never responded to ANY of my prayers. This is also true for many millions of other people worldwide.

As a former Christian, I understand your point of view. It's been almost three years since I renounced my belief and faith in God and left Christianity. It took me many years to finally realize that either God wasn't there or, if he was, he apparently doesn't give a damn about me. I prayed to God for 40 years and never had any prayers answered, or at the very least felt his presence in my life, as other Christians claimed to experience. I realized that I needed to be honest with myself and admit that my belief in God was merely an emotional crutch and that I didn't need it in my life. I know that I don't need to believe in God in order to be a good person, to make moral decisions, or to experience peace, joy, and contentment in my life. So I don't need to rely on God for anything. I can't speak for other former Christians, but renouncing my belief in God was one of the best decisions that I've ever made for my mental health.