God is 1 vs God is 3

[sojourner]

Tell me where in the scriptures the trinity is mentioned. I want to know in detail where it says that God, Jesus and the holy spirit are one in the same. And phrase quote Abrahamic books. Not Pagan Roman sources.

Jesus is never mentioned in the Hebrew texts. Not all Greek texts are "Roman" or "pagan."
your biased slip is showing.

 

[Skwim]

Correction: the Trinity was not "voted into being at Nicea."

Other evidence to the contrary.

"At the Council of Nicea, Emperor Constantine presided over a group of Church bishops and leaders with the purpose of defining the true God for all of Christianity and eliminating all the confusion, controversy, and contention within Christ’s church. The Council of Nicea affirmed the deity of Jesus Christ and established an official definition of the Trinity—the deity of The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit under one Godhead, in three co-equal and co-eternal Persons.

Once the Nicea Council meeting was underway Constantine demanded that the 300 bishops make a decision by majority vote defining who Jesus Christ is.

The Council of Nicea voted to make the Trinity the official doctrine of the church."

source

_____________________________________________________________________


"The Nicene Creed

The bishops decided that an official statement was necessary which would reflect the orthodox view of the church concerning the relationship of the Son to the Father, and which could be used as a doctrinal standard for the church universal. Eusebius of Caesarea introduced a creed to the assembly which impressed those present sufficiently, in particular the emperor, that they decided that with a few small changes it could be a suitable expression of orthodox doctrine on the issue of the Trinity, and appropriate changes were suggested. According to Bishop Athanasius, who was present at the council, Hosius was then given the job of composing the final statement and it was brought before the council for a vote."

source


______________________________________________________________________
​

"Constantine demanded once the Nicea Council meeting was underway that the 300 bishops make a decision by majority vote defining who Jesus Christ is.

The bishops voted to make the fully deity of Christ the accepted position for the church. The Council of Nicea voted to make the Trinity the official doctrine of the church."

source
​

Bone up on your church history, plz.

It appears you may want to take your own advice.

 

[allright]

I've been studying the New Testament and it is becoming clear to me that the trinity is not a biblical concept. It actually resembles a pagan Roman concept. You will not find the word "trinity" anywhere in the Bible, nor is it implied. In fact, the New Testament seems to confirm the theme of the old Jewish books. That God is one.

Now, when a scribe asked Jesus what is the FIRST COMMANDMENT, what did Jesus say?

Mark:12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Now let's analyze this situation. This is a SCRIBE! A scribe is a learned man. Scribes were rare and the highly educated ones in those days. So why is a scribe asking Jesus a question that any 8 year old Jewish boy could have answered a thousand years earlier? Because he wanted to make sure Jesus was not claiming to be God and that he was still teaching the most important Jewish teaching of all. That God is ONE!

And what did Jesus say?
That God is indeed ONE.
Jesus said the very first commandment of all is that God is ONE. But if you ask most modern day Christians what THEIR first commandment is. They will tell you God is THREE!

Worshipping anyone other than God (Jesus included) is breaking the most important commandment of all. I have yet to find any evidence that Jesus asked to be worshipped. In fact, he himself worshipped the creator. So anyone who believes in the trinity and worships Jesus, please explain what verses or teachings you are using to justify this belief.

The verse you quote from the Old Testament "The Lord our God is one"
actually should read "The Lords our Gods are one" God is in the plural.

 

[Skwim]

The verse you quote from the Old Testament "The Lord our God is one"
actually should read "The Lords our Gods are one" God is in the plural.

So why isn't it

New International Version (©2011)
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

New Living Translation (©2007)
"Listen, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD alone.


English Standard Version (©2001)
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.


New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!


King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:


Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
Listen, Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One.


International Standard Version (©2012)
"Listen, Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD alone.


NET Bible (©2006)
Listen, Israel: The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!


GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Listen, Israel: The LORD is our God. The LORD is the only God.


King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:


American King James Version
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:


American Standard Version
Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah:


Douay-Rheims Bible
Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.



Darby Bible Translation
Hear, Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah;


English Revised Version
Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God is one LORD:


Webster's Bible Translation
Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God is one LORD:


World English Bible
Hear, Israel: Yahweh is our God; Yahweh is one:


Young's Literal Translation
Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah;
​

 

[sojourner]

Other evidence to the contrary.

"At the Council of Nicea, Emperor Constantine presided over a group of Church bishops and leaders with the purpose of defining the true God for all of Christianity and eliminating all the confusion, controversy, and contention within Christ’s church. The Council of Nicea affirmed the deity of Jesus Christ and established an official definition of the Trinity—the deity of The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit under one Godhead, in three co-equal and co-eternal Persons.

Once the Nicea Council meeting was underway Constantine demanded that the 300 bishops make a decision by majority vote defining who Jesus Christ is.

The Council of Nicea voted to make the Trinity the official doctrine of the church."

source

_____________________________________________________________________


"The Nicene Creed

The bishops decided that an official statement was necessary which would reflect the orthodox view of the church concerning the relationship of the Son to the Father, and which could be used as a doctrinal standard for the church universal. Eusebius of Caesarea introduced a creed to the assembly which impressed those present sufficiently, in particular the emperor, that they decided that with a few small changes it could be a suitable expression of orthodox doctrine on the issue of the Trinity, and appropriate changes were suggested. According to Bishop Athanasius, who was present at the council, Hosius was then given the job of composing the final statement and it was brought before the council for a vote."

source


______________________________________________________________________
​

"Constantine demanded once the Nicea Council meeting was underway that the 300 bishops make a decision by majority vote defining who Jesus Christ is.

The bishops voted to make the fully deity of Christ the accepted position for the church. The Council of Nicea voted to make the Trinity the official doctrine of the church."

source
​

It appears you may want to take your own advice.

Note what I've highlighted as much as possible. The confusion was over the nature of God and Jesus. The trinity was not "voted into existence" at Nicea. There was already debate on the issue happening long before the Council was called, meaning that there was a sense among a very large portion of the church that God was to be expressed in Trinity. All the vote did was to try to come to consensus on the matter, and to settle details, as well as to quell heresies concerning Jesus' non-Divinity or non-humanity.

 

[Skwim]

Note what I've highlighted as much as possible. The confusion was over the nature of God and Jesus. The trinity was not "voted into existence" at Nicea.

"Voted into being," to be precise. I don't know if you're purposely play a fool's game of semantics here or not, but by "being" I meant "accepted as true--a fact." It wasn't until the vote that the trinity became Christian dogma/doctrine.

 

[TheKnight]

The verse you quote from the Old Testament "The Lord our God is one"
actually should read "The Lords our Gods are one" God is in the plural.

Do you read Hebrew?

Shema Yisrael HaShem Elokeinu HaShem Echad translates (roughly) to "Hear Israel that The Lord (singular) our God (singular) is one.

It's not plural in even close to being plural in any sense of the word plural.

 

[allright]

Do you read Hebrew?

Shema Yisrael HaShem Elokeinu HaShem Echad translates (roughly) to "Hear Israel that The Lord (singular) our God (singular) is one.

It's not plural in even close to being plural in any sense of the word plural.

Its plural plural plural One Rabbi was so upset by it he went through all the scriptures changing the name to the singular

 

[sojourner]

"Voted into being," to be precise. I don't know if you're purposely play a fool's game of semantics here or not, but by "being" I meant "accepted as true--a fact." It wasn't until the vote that the trinity became Christian dogma/doctrine.

Nope. Just trying to get you to be terse and correct in your posting. It wasn't until the vote (to be precise) that the entire Church came to official consensus on the matter. It was already doctrine, in some form, in most places before Nicea.

 

[Skwim]

Nope. Just trying to get you to be terse and correct in your posting. It wasn't until the vote (to be precise) that the entire Church came to official consensus on the matter. It was already doctrine, in some form, in most places before Nicea.

Nah. I caught you in a blunder and now you're trying to talk yourself out of it. It ain't washing, SoJ. Not at all.

 

[TheKnight]

Its plural plural plural One Rabbi was so upset by it he went through all the scriptures changing the name to the singular

You mean to tell me that one angry Rabbi got upset at the undocumented plurality of God found in the Shema, went and changed all Hebrew scriptures to reflect a singular God, and this is documented nowhere? Such a thing is completely unknown?

 

[sojourner]

Nah. I caught you in a blunder and now you're trying to talk yourself out of it. It ain't washing, SoJ. Not at all.

'K.

What, exactly was this alleged "blunder?":beach:

The fact of the matter is that you were skewing the information to sound as if the idea of Trinity didn't exist before Nicea, and that it was some kind of arbitrary vote that made it all up out of whole cloth, probably in order to either discredit it, or to be provocative. And you don't like being called out on it.

 

[Rational_Mind]

'K.

What, exactly was this alleged "blunder?":beach:

The fact of the matter is that you were skewing the information to sound as if the idea of Trinity didn't exist before Nicea, and that it was some kind of arbitrary vote that made it all up out of whole cloth, probably in order to either discredit it, or to be provocative. And you don't like being called out on it.

Actually you were skewing information to make it seem like trinity was a consensus among all Christians from the beginning. Historically this statement is fiction.

 

[allright]

You mean to tell me that one angry Rabbi got upset at the undocumented plurality of God found in the Shema, went and changed all Hebrew scriptures to reflect a singular God, and this is documented nowhere? Such a thing is completely unknown?

*edit*

He was the one who was "mad" I didnt say he got anywhere

First you said it wasnt plural. now its "undocumented plurality"

Elohim = El -God im - plural

 

[Skwim]

'K.

What, exactly was this alleged "blunder?":beach:

That you were wrong when you said, "the Trinity was not "voted into being at Nicea."

The fact of the matter is that you were skewing the information to sound as if the idea of Trinity didn't exist before Nicea, and that it was some kind of arbitrary vote that made it all up out of whole cloth, probably in order to either discredit it, or to be provocative. And you don't like being called out on it.

That you need to go into a tap dance in order to "prove" your point is understandable, but it's hardly convincing. However, go ahead and read into it whatever you need to. We both know what I meant, just as we both know how you tripped up.

 

[Rational_Mind]

That you were wrong when you said, "the Trinity was not "voted into being at Nicea."

That you need to go into a tap dance in order to "prove" your point is understandable, but it's hardly convincing. However, go ahead and read into it whatever you need to. We both know what I meant, just as we both know how you tripped up.

Excuse me, that is three of us.

 

[Skwim]

Excuse me, that is three of us.

 

[sojourner]

Actually you were skewing information to make it seem like trinity was a consensus among all Christians from the beginning. Historically this statement is fiction.

No, that's not what I said. At all. Nor did I imply it. What I said was that many (if not most) Christians had some concept of Trinity long before Nicea. All Nicea did was to establish a doctrine that all factions could "live with."

 

[sojourner]

We both know what I meant, just as we both know how you tripped up.

Not. I can't help it if you misunderstood what I wrote.
My first post:

Correction: the Trinity was not "voted into being at Nicea."

My next post:

Note what I've highlighted as much as possible. The confusion was over the nature of God and Jesus. The trinity was not "voted into existence" at Nicea. There was already debate on the issue happening long before the Council was called, meaning that there was a sense among a very large portion of the church that God was to be expressed in Trinity. All the vote did was to try to come to consensus on the matter, and to settle details, as well as to quell heresies concerning Jesus' non-Divinity or non-humanity.

Nothing -- nothing in either of these posts implies that I "skew[ed] information to make it seem like trinity was a consensus among all Christians from the beginning." I clearly said that the vote attempted to create consensus.

Nicea didn't invent the Trinity out of whole cloth, as your post implies.

Sorry.

 

[Aamer]

No, that's not what I said. At all. Nor did I imply it. What I said was that many (if not most) Christians had some concept of Trinity long before Nicea. All Nicea did was to establish a doctrine that all factions could "live with."

The trinity was in fact voted in at the Council of Nicaea in 325AD.

Here's what wikipedia says about "agenda and procedure" if you wiki "The first council of Nicaea"...

The agenda of the synod included:
The*Arian*question regarding the relationship between God the Father and Jesus; i.e., are the Father and Son one in divine purpose only or also*one in being?
The date of celebration of the Paschal/Easter*observationThe*Meletian*schismThe validity of*baptism*by hereticsThe status of the lapsed in the persecution under*Licinius[citation needed]The council was formally opened May 20, in the central structure of the imperial palace at Nicea, with preliminary discussions of the Arian question. In these discussions, some dominant figures were Arius, with several adherents. "Some 22 of the bishops at the council, led by Eusebius of Nicomedia, came as supporters of Arius. But when some of the more shocking passages from his writings were read, they were almost universally seen as blasphemous."[17]Bishops*Theognis of Nicea*and*Maris of Chalcedon*were among the initial supporters of Arius.