• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

God is a Man (What is a "Spirit?")

Can I ask you - WHY? Why do you follow this man?
What has he said that has resonated so much with you?

I too have a prophet, but he proposes nothing but freedom and most importantly freedom from dogma.
What has this man got to offer me? A white western woman who believes Man is God?

Uum-hmm. I just think that his words resonate with those who are truly dissatisfied with this world. I think that he is the Spirit of Truth and that faith in what he teaches will sit anyone in heaven at once. I apologize if you feel like I have been harrassing you in any way. I just meant to send you an invitation to those links and I was just curious as to if you had visited them.

If you ever feel dissatisfied with this world, then I think that Louis Farrakhan can help any dissatisfied person regardless of his/her race. You are always welcome to visit those links (FinalCall.com News - Articles by LouisFarrakhan, The Time & What Must Be Done: Lecture Series by Minister Louis Farrakhan.)

Peace & Blessings:).
Yahyaa Waahid
 

F0uad

Well-Known Member
Well F0uad (lol,)
Why Lol?

it is very sad how the Muslim world has deviated from the Truth and has subscribed to false doctrines that CONTRADICT the Holy Qur'an and the Prophet's (pbuh) sayings. It is their (the Muslim world) DEVIATION from the Truth that makes them such an easy target for the West...
I am not sure how the two are connected but yes its a ashamed that groups like the Nation of Islam follow Shirk and that people like like Malcolm X had to die because he left the Shirk group.

The Truth, F0uad, is that Holy Qur'an 2:2-4 tells us that Islam teaches belief in ALL Revelation from Allah, that which came before the Qur'an & the Qur'an itself; Holy Qur'an 2:40-41 tells us that the Qur'an VERIFIES "that which is with" the Children of Israel; and hadith qudsi #25 tells us like the Bible, that Allah dwells in Man.
Hadith ''Qudsi'' is not Authentic and the Quran does verify that but it never says that these previous revelations are still intact, if that was the case there would be no need for Islam (The Quran). Duh?

You quoted Al-Bagarah but if it you read it in context it later says:

Can ye (o ye men of Faith) entertain the hope that they will believe in you?- Seeing that a party of them heard the Word of Allah, and perverted it knowingly after they understood it… Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (Quran 2:75,79)

and here are more:

There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, "That is from Allah," but it is not from Allah: It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it! (Quran 3:78)

And remember Allah took a covenant from the People of the Book, to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it; but they threw it away behind their backs, and purchased with it some miserable gain! And vile was the bargain they made! (Quran 3:187)

But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind. From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done. (Quran 5:13-14)

No just estimate of Allah do they make when they say: "Nothing doth Allah send down to man (by way of revelation)" Say: "Who then sent down the Book which Moses brought?- a light and guidance to man: But ye make it into (separate) sheets for show, while ye conceal much (of its contents): therein were ye taught that which ye knew not- neither ye nor your fathers." Say: "Allah (sent it down)": Then leave them to plunge in vain discourse and trifling. (Quran 6:91)



And there are many more now lets go to Authentic Hadiths:

Narrated Abu Huraira: The people of the Scripture (Jews) used to recite the Torah in Hebrew and they used to explain it in Arabic to the Muslims. On that Allah's Apostle said, "Do not believe the people of the Scripture or disbelieve them, but say:-- "We believe in Allah and what is revealed to us." (2.136) (Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 12)


Narrated Ubaidullah: Ibn 'Abbas said, "Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!" (Bukhari Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461)


Narrated 'Ubaidullah bin 'Abdullah: 'Abdullah bin 'Abbas said, "O the group of Muslims! How can you ask the people of the Scriptures about anything while your Book which Allah has revealed to your Prophet contains the most recent news from Allah and is pure and not distorted? Allah has told you that the people of the Scriptures have changed some of Allah's Books and distorted it and wrote something with their own hands and said, 'This is from Allah, so as to have a minor gain for it. Won't the knowledge that has come to you stop you from asking them? No, by Allah, we have never seen a man from them asking you about that (the Book Al-Qur'an ) which has been revealed to you. (Bukhari Volume 9, Book 93, Number 614)


Now i can keep on continuing but you get the idea, Islam clearly teaches that the ''Bible'' has been changed/corrupted and forgotten.
Even Christian biblical scholars and Historians agree that the bible has been edited in time why can't you?

Peace.
Yahyaa Waahid
Salaam.
 
Last edited:

Octavia156

OTO/EGC
Uum-hmm. I just think that his words resonate with those who are truly dissatisfied with this world. I think that he is the Spirit of Truth and that faith in what he teaches will sit anyone in heaven at once. I apologize if you feel like I have been harrassing you in any way. I just meant to send you an invitation to those links and I was just curious as to if you had visited them.

If you ever feel dissatisfied with this world, then I think that Louis Farrakhan can help any dissatisfied person regardless of his/her race. You are always welcome to visit those links (FinalCall.com News - Articles by LouisFarrakhan, The Time & What Must Be Done: Lecture Series by Minister Louis Farrakhan.)

Peace & Blessings:).
Yahyaa Waahid

I didn't think you were harrassing me..... though you are coming across quite evangelical and I wondered why you'd think a white woman would be interested in what the Nation of Islam has to say.
I'm not dissatisfied with the world AT ALL.

In my religion, "Existance is pure Joy" we see 'heaven' as Life on Earth... and Life is to be worshipped and Death is the gift that leads to new life.

I don't believe in judgemental Gods or an "After-Life" that only those who've lived by certain dogmas can enjoy... this, to me, is as idiotic as believing in Santa Claus

(MODS - I mean no offense here - just trying to make my point - please don't tell me off again!)
 
Why Lol?


I am not sure how the two are connected but yes its a ashamed that groups like the Nation of Islam follow Shirk and that people like like Malcolm X had to die because he left the Shirk group.


Hadith ''Qudsi'' is not Authentic and the Quran does verify that but it never says that these previous revelations are still intact, if that was the case there would be no need for Islam (The Quran). Duh?

You quoted Al-Bagarah but if it you read it in context it later says:

Can ye (o ye men of Faith) entertain the hope that they will believe in you?- Seeing that a party of them heard the Word of Allah, and perverted it knowingly after they understood it… Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (Quran 2:75,79)

and here are more:

There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, "That is from Allah," but it is not from Allah: It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it! (Quran 3:78)

And remember Allah took a covenant from the People of the Book, to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it; but they threw it away behind their backs, and purchased with it some miserable gain! And vile was the bargain they made! (Quran 3:187)

But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind. From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done. (Quran 5:13-14)

No just estimate of Allah do they make when they say: "Nothing doth Allah send down to man (by way of revelation)" Say: "Who then sent down the Book which Moses brought?- a light and guidance to man: But ye make it into (separate) sheets for show, while ye conceal much (of its contents): therein were ye taught that which ye knew not- neither ye nor your fathers." Say: "Allah (sent it down)": Then leave them to plunge in vain discourse and trifling. (Quran 6:91)



And there are many more now lets go to Authentic Hadiths:

Narrated Abu Huraira: The people of the Scripture (Jews) used to recite the Torah in Hebrew and they used to explain it in Arabic to the Muslims. On that Allah's Apostle said, "Do not believe the people of the Scripture or disbelieve them, but say:-- "We believe in Allah and what is revealed to us." (2.136) (Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 12)


Narrated Ubaidullah: Ibn 'Abbas said, "Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!" (Bukhari Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461)


Narrated 'Ubaidullah bin 'Abdullah: 'Abdullah bin 'Abbas said, "O the group of Muslims! How can you ask the people of the Scriptures about anything while your Book which Allah has revealed to your Prophet contains the most recent news from Allah and is pure and not distorted? Allah has told you that the people of the Scriptures have changed some of Allah's Books and distorted it and wrote something with their own hands and said, 'This is from Allah, so as to have a minor gain for it. Won't the knowledge that has come to you stop you from asking them? No, by Allah, we have never seen a man from them asking you about that (the Book Al-Qur'an ) which has been revealed to you. (Bukhari Volume 9, Book 93, Number 614)


Now i can keep on continuing but you get the idea, Islam clearly teaches that the ''Bible'' has been changed/corrupted and forgotten.
Even Christian biblical scholars and Historians agree that the bible has been edited in time why can't you?


Salaam.

I don't know why the "lol;" I think that something just struck me as funny.

But you shouldn't lie, Brother. Here is a link about the Hadith Qudsi that explains their authenticity: Hadith qudsi. Hadith Qudsi #25 is from the Bukhari collection.

Yes the Qur'an says that the Bible has been tampered with, but the Holy Qur'an also says of itself that it "GUARDS" (Surah 5:48) & VERIFIES the Truth of the Bible...the meaning of the word "verify" is, "to prove the truth of, as by evidence or testimony; confirm; substantiate: Events verified his prediction." If that is true (and it is) then anything that the Bible says that does not contradict anything in the Qur'an is true. Right? Right...

Peace & Love,
Bro. Yahyaa
 
I didn't think you were harrassing me..... though you are coming across quite evangelical and I wondered why you'd think a white woman would be interested in what the Nation of Islam has to say.
I'm not dissatisfied with the world AT ALL.

In my religion, "Existance is pure Joy" we see 'heaven' as Life on Earth... and Life is to be worshipped and Death is the gift that leads to new life.

I don't believe in judgemental Gods or an "After-Life" that only those who've lived by certain dogmas can enjoy... this, to me, is as idiotic as believing in Santa Claus

(MODS - I mean no offense here - just trying to make my point - please don't tell me off again!)

Oh OK lol...the Nation of Islam actually says that their Message is for all regardless of color:).

Peace & Blessings.
Yahyaa Waahid
 

Octavia156

OTO/EGC
Oh OK lol...the Nation of Islam actually says that their Message is for all regardless of color:).

Peace & Blessings.
Yahyaa Waahid

do you have a quote for that? or do you just want to avoid looking like a racist.....?

see apparently
"“theology of innate black superiority over whites and the deeply racist, anti-Semitic and anti-gay rhetoric of its leaders have earned the NOI a prominent position in the ranks of organized hate.”

I still wonder why you are a follower - may I ask - are you white?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam#cite_note-7
 

Assad91

Shi'ah Ali
do you have a quote for that? or do you just want to avoid looking like a racist.....?

see apparently
"“theology of innate black superiority over whites and the deeply racist, anti-Semitic and anti-gay rhetoric of its leaders have earned the NOI a prominent position in the ranks of organized hate.”

I still wonder why you are a follower - may I ask - are you white?
Don't forget their support of segregation!
 

AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
The Nation of Islam does not allow members of the White race to join it's ranks, but anyone regardless of race can believe in the Honorable Elijah Muhammad & Minister Farrakhan.

So Barak Obama could not join the Nation of Islam?

How much white blood must a person have in order to be refused membership?

Just a single drop?

51%?
 

PastorClark

Agnostic Christain
:facepalm:

The God of Islam, Christianity and Judaism is the same God, You cannot say that you're religion is right and to say others are wrong, that is making you a hypocrite."I am not really calling you a hypocrite just making a point."

I'm going to say this weather you like it or not, there is no such thing as a true religion, Just like there is not a "True" Bible. I just want to say i am not trying to put any person faith or belief down. But someone has to take a stand on how people says their religion is the only way to God, in which is very wrong to say the least.


Once again i apologize if i offended anyone, some things need to be said. And if i'm wrong then so be it. But that is just how i feel about people claiming that their religion is the only way to God. :)
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Greetings, Sir:).

Actually, the Holy Qur'an says in Surah 2:2-4 that those who believe in the Holy Qur'an believe in ALL Revelation that is from Allah. Here is Holy Qur'an 2:2-4:

"(2)This Book, there is no doubt in it, is a guide to those who keep their duty, (3)Who believe in the Unseen and keep up prayer and spend out of what We have given them, (4)And who believe in that which has been revealed to thee and that which was revealed before thee, and of the Hereafter they are sure."

And the Holy Qur'an says of itself in Surah 2:40-41 that it verifies "that which is with" the Children of Israel. Holy Qur'an 2:40-41!:

"(40)O Children of Israel, call to mind My favour which I bestowed on you and be faithful to (your) covenant with Me, I shall fulfil (My) covenant with you; and Me, Me alone, should you fear. (41)And believe in that which I have revealed, verifying that which is with you, and be not the first to deny it; neither take a mean price for My messages; and keep your duty to Me, Me alone."

So unless what the Bible says is contradicted by the Holy Qu'ran, the Holy Qur'an verifies that what the Bible says is true. The Holy Qur'an does not contradict Allah (God) being a Spirit.

Peace:).
Bro. Yahyaa

However the Hadith doesn't qualify because it is not from Allah.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Energy may not "have hands and feet" but "spirit" is what gives life to the hands and feet. Without spirit, there is no life and the body is dead. I believe that God is spirit (e.g. "the energy of life" or "the breath of life" or "the source of life"). But that does not preclude Him from having a body. I believe that a spirit can exist in embodied or unembodied form, and I believe that God's spirit exists in an embodied form.

I believe this is not neccessarily the case. For instance in the case of a person with a frontal lobotomy; the spirit is cut off from the body but the body still lives in a zombie state. (I have seen this and it is very spooky)

I believe there is no proof that a spirit is energy or that it is neccessary for life. I believe it is neccessary for a person to be a living soul.

I believe there is no supporting evidence for this.
 

Yahya

Member
Are you expecting the Mahdi to come? If so, will he be a man? The answer should be yes, but he will be empowered with the spirt of Allah. The Mahdi will be an Arab. The Mahdi will restore deviated Islam to the straight path. Allah has chosen the black man in the west to restore first, then the rest of the world. Peace
 

Assad91

Shi'ah Ali
Are you expecting the Mahdi to come? If so, will he be a man? The answer should be yes, but he will be empowered with the spirt of Allah. The Mahdi will be an Arab. The Mahdi will restore deviated Islam to the straight path. Allah has chosen the black man in the west to restore first, then the rest of the world. Peace

Restore what? Segregation?
 

Yahya

Member
Restore Islam to the pure state it was in when Muhammad was here. For you to ask me that question indicate to that you are not aware that their are at least seventy sects of Islam. Deviation, Deviation. Muhammad was a Muslim not Suni, not Shia, you name the rest. Don't you think something is wrong? No of fence, that was the condition of the black man in America until we received a new teaching from Master Fard Muhammad (Mahdi). It also seem you do not understand, why we prefer separation over integration. Let me put it to you like this. We have a new knowledge that teaches us to do for self and not to depend on someone else. It is just like when a man becomes a man, he should want to do for self. PEACE
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Muffled

Jesus in me
Restore Islam to the pure state it was in when Muhammad was here. For you to ask me that question indicate to that you are not aware that their are at least seventy sects of Islam. Deviation, Deviation. Muhammad was a Muslim not Suni, not Shia, you name the rest. Don't you think something is wrong? No of fence, that was the condition of the black man in America until we received a new teaching from Master Fard Muhammad (Mahdi). It also seem you do not understand, why we prefer separation over integration. Let me put it to you like this. We have a new knowledge that teaches us to do for self and not to depend on someone else. It is just like when a man becomes a man, he should want to do for self. PEACE

I don't believe that there is any more evidence that He is the Mahdi than there is that the Bab was the Mahdi.

I believe this isn't new. It is huanism and it has never worked before and isn't likely to work now.
 
Top