Heyo
Veteran Member
It cuts away a bit of confusion but it doesn't remove all.
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God Is a Problem
- Thread starter SalixIncendium
- Start date
siti
Well-Known Member
Indeed! Even in the first few pages of the Bible, there is confusion about what the "YHWH" version of "God" is like and what the "El" or "Elohim" version is like...possibly, as some scholars hold, because they were originally two distinct deities who became "merged" in Hebrew tradition.
Naming the God one is referring to is (perhaps) one way of clarifying to some extent, but the (obviously anglicized) "Jehovah" of Jehovah's Witnesses is a very different deity from the (unpronounceable) YHWH of Judaism...still more different from the "Allah" of Islam...and none of these bearing even close resemblance to the triune Godhead of mainstream Christianity.
And yet some would have us believe that the "God" of the Abrahamic Faiths in all their diversity and denominations is one and the same deity. If it is, then God has a very serious multiple personality disorder.
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The horror in the Middle East shows what happens when fear and hatred rule men's hearts. Too many are getting ruled by these emotions and want to punish one side or the other for their terrible crimes. Now Iran is firing missiles and from what I read Hezbollah and Israel are staggering toward war.
And as a side-note, I have the impression North Korea is taken steps to start a war. And from what I read Russia is thinking about starting a shooting war with NATO.
If things keep going the way they have we might look back on 2023 with nostalgia.
And going back to the thread title, to me God is the solution not the problem.
When men have lost their way
And know not where to turn,
And the future seems to end
Where the fires of hatred burn,
Then let men look within
To see the rising of my flame
Of love to light the way again.
And as a side-note, I have the impression North Korea is taken steps to start a war. And from what I read Russia is thinking about starting a shooting war with NATO.
If things keep going the way they have we might look back on 2023 with nostalgia.
And going back to the thread title, to me God is the solution not the problem.
When men have lost their way
And know not where to turn,
And the future seems to end
Where the fires of hatred burn,
Then let men look within
To see the rising of my flame
Of love to light the way again.
All that situation proves Jesus a real prophet of God, and that this human system of things is close to its end:
Matt. 24:6 You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.
7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.
9 “Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name. 10 Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and mislead many; 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold. 13 But the one who has endured to the end will be saved. 14 And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
The only thing that makes it confusing is Christendom’s confused & mysterious godhead…as you stated, @siti .
When you read the OT (Hebrew Scriptures), does it sound as if the Israelite writers of those books were confused?
No.
Isaiah, Ezekiel, Nehemiah, David, etc., they knew who their God was…
Siri, you said,”….the (obviously anglicized) "Jehovah" of Jehovah's Witnesses is a very different deity from the (unpronounceable) YHWH of Judaism…”
How so? I say he’s exactly the same; Christendom changed the understanding of Him, but the God of ancient Israel is the same One we as Jehovah’s Witnesses worship. The same One Jesus worshipped. The only thing that changed was, instead of the Israelite way of worshipping Yahweh through animal sacrifices, He accepts worship only through faith in His Son Jesus’ sacrifice. That’s what was altered, not who God was / is. Now, christendom has a different take on it, adding Jesus to it. But JW’s are no part of christendom.
The name is not “unpronounceable,” all the Bible writers wrote it and ‘praised’ it (example: Isaiah 25:1); it was just forgotten how to say it. That’s on the ancient Jews.
Anglicizing it isn’t wrong, otherwise saying “Jesus Christ” would be wrong.
FWIW, “el” & “elohim” are Hebrew words for “god” & “gods”. And elohim can be used to mean, not a plurality, but ‘excellence’ in the writer’s / speaker’s opinion, as seen in the Hebrew of Judges 16:23. Referencing the Philistine god Dagon.
Take care, my cousin.
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Heyo
Veteran Member
Now you only have to convince the other ~3 billion believers to accept that you got it right and they got it wrong and the OP argument about difference between the believers is refuted.
God is an unknowable essence in the Baha'i Faith. The best way we come to know God is through His Prophets.
I agree the term is problematic, especially relating to others outside an Abrahamic Faith where the term 'Prophet' is even more difficult. It is best to avoid words and phrases such as God and Prophets when talking to non-religious people or those from religious traditions outside of the Abrahamics in my experience.
Most people won’t be within the 1 ft radius.
You say “God is violent” and yet you don’t demonstrate love. Reminds me of a scripture… “In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."
This coming from the COVID pastor who kept his church open all through the pandemic, even when ERs were full and there were no real treatments.
You acted contrary to love to maximize your tithes, but now you have the gall to criticize others?
Remember that Jesus's strongest condemnations in the Bible were reserved for pious hypocrites. Think about those scriptures.
I can imagine many things....In our understanding, he is a friend that sticks closer than a brother.
Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, Allah, Lakshmi, Cthulhu, etc.
They don't become real.
As adolescents mature into adults, they stop seeking
love & assistance from imaginary friends & parental
figures. They learn to stand on their own 2 feet. To
address life's vicissitudes with reason & resourcefulness.
Not to kneel & whimper with hands clasped to have
problems solved for them.
But your understanding is just one version of this God.
Others see him as the punisher...torturing the infidels
for eternity. Or the ravager...smiting & death dealing
on Earth. Moreover, your understanding of this "friend"
is that it favors Christians & especially Jews, allowing
Muslims to be slaughtered wholesale. This apparition
has groomed Donald Trump to be the exemplar leader.
You're OK with grabbing women by the hoohah, welching
on debts, threatening political rivals, & generally spewing
venom in God's name at all who oppose or displease.
You really should invent a better deity.
This God has a hideous track record.
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Samael_Khan
Qigong / Yang Style Taijiquan / 7 Star Mantis
The term god is a problem because these days it seems to reflect the abrahamic conception of a deity. People associate it with certain attributes and when those attributes arent present in other religions "gods" their gods are often misrepresented and the religiom is misunderstood.
My solution? Scrap the term and just refer to these beings as they are referred to in their religions.
Samael_Khan
Qigong / Yang Style Taijiquan / 7 Star Mantis
Thats so messed up.
Those types of christians don't really care about morality even though they take the moral highground. I can tell you now, if a christian believes that God told them to feed a child cyanide, they would find some way to twist their scriptures toand after killing the child, will claim that it was the moral thing to do and all those who disagree with them are agents of satan or blind.
Oh, they do indeed care.
But they have "the light", so whatever they believe,
& whatever morality they adopt, it's all absolute
inerrant Truth...planted telepathically from their
"bestie", God.
If they steal, it is God's will.
If they murder, it is God's will.
If they sexually assault others, it's God's will.
Thus, Donald Trump can be God's hand.
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Samael_Khan
Qigong / Yang Style Taijiquan / 7 Star Mantis
I think that if a person's morality is dictated to them by others, such as god, then they don't care about morality but rather they care about people following their puppet master.
The morality they speak about is their masters whims. That is why they always think that one cannot be moral without a god.
The only reason why they mention morality is to use it as a vehicle to keep people obedient to their master.
They believe the puppeteer is their god.
Whatever he says (that they like) is The Truth.
They can't even agree among themselves what the
Master wants...its scripture is so vague & internally
contradictory. So they pick & choose, gleaning
many different moralities.
They believe that they & they alone have
the true inerrant deity delivered morality.
Donald Trump & Israel are the results, ie,
dishonesty, death, destruction, bigotry, & woe.
I disagree that this is pollution.
The thread is "God Is A Problem". It invites controversy.
This names a particular god, ie, the one named "God".
The problems with this deity can be examined only
by addressing what adherents to the faith are inspired
to do based on what they believe "God" wants.
USA's Christians believe that Trump is sent here by God.
Christians & Israel's Jews believe they've a God given
right to act as they do. Both Democrat & Republican
Christians are united on this, pointing to a God based
problem that transcends partisan politics, but involves
politics nonetheless.
How else can the "problems of God" be addressed
without addressing politics?
Samael_Khan
Qigong / Yang Style Taijiquan / 7 Star Mantis
Yep. And the puppeteer is a person they believe is gods representative. That human authority is who they are loyal to. And because they are emotionally attached to different cult leaders they can't agree amongst themselves. So really they follow humans. Which is so ironic. He picks and chooses what scriptures are relevent.
Their collective narcissism as a result is dangerous to the world, hence Donald Trump and Israel.
Aye, a major God Problem appears to be the lack
of unifying fundamental values. Sure, there are
plenty of values, but they conflict with each other,
allowing the believers to follow different paths.
Which will they follow?
One's tribe drives values & acts more than the
scripture. And as you say, a cult leader will
impose personal values on the tribe. We can
only hope that they'll pursue good rather than
evil, but the results are disappointing.
Samael_Khan
Qigong / Yang Style Taijiquan / 7 Star Mantis
The term God itself, going back to the issue in the OP, is just used by cult leaders to differentiate themselves from other cult leaders. In marketing one has to differentiate themselves from the competition so that their business can thrive.
This is partially why the definition of god changes even with christians. From the Yahweh of the bible who is purely monotheistic, to Yaldabaoth the evil God, to Jesus being God, to God being a trinity, to unitarianism, to the JW definition of God. They are all marketing ploys to rally people to their side or to even make the originator of said concept feel special so that they believe they have some new enlightening knowledge of god which makes them the "true" believer who all "righteous" people must follow.
Added to this values must conflict with others to gain support and to benefit the puppeteer, because they exist for narcissitic reasons in the first place.
They cannot unite because then the group is no longer special and then weaker cult leaders cannot compete. So unification is impossible.
Try reading the OP instead of assuming what the the thread is about by reading the title.