God is everywhere; is God in Hell?

[Prim969]

God does not put the desire in us for eternal life enjoying good health for nothing. We have that desire for a reason. He wants us to look for Him while -- we're alive. We can find Him if we desire. And, of course, Jacob said he saw God. So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying, “For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life has been delivered.” Genesis 32:30. So there are, of course, different ways of "seeing God."
There is a debate among scholars in reference to Matthew 27:50-53, what it means, and when it was written.
The point is that seeing God can be taken in several ways, one example is with Jacob at Peniel. As far as seeing God in His full glory, that is yet to come. But we can certainly understand more about what it means to "see God" now. As an example, if a person were to say he sees God in his life, few would take that to mean that he actually sees God in person, but rather as an influence in the right manner.

YoursTrue that’s correct there are a number of times that the God has manifested himself that way. Be that via a burning bush to Moses or as a angel when discussing the destruction of sodom with Abraham. From memory I think you you have the two Jehovahs mentioned also discussing the destruction of those cities as well. And than we do come to the Jacob who wrestles with the angel of the Lord. Sadly for Jacob this angel turns out to be another manifestation of God. I guess God must have really liked Jacob as he did not kill him. I dare say that Jacob was rather thankful as well to only walk or hobble away with a wonky leg for the rest of his life Especially once he realised who he was wrestling with. . I fully understand and agree with what you say that we can look apon God in many ways. Just not apon his full glory at least until our redemption is finally finished and complete. So once again you have God in a manifested form and not in his actual full glory or Jacob would surely have died if he looked apon the full glory of God. That’s all I say if mere mortals were to look apon the full glory of God in our present state than you would surely die. YoursTrue you did mention Matthew 27:50-53 that there is much debate amongst scholars. There is always much debate amongst scholars I guess. And there shall continue to be more so as the days grow more dark and evil with each passing year. Actually We are warned that there are those who diligently and willingly go out to.corrupt the word of God. I guess you have to evaluate the scholar. Is the bible a mere Book of myth , legend and borrowed stories to him. Or does he believe that the bible is the actual word.of God.

 

[YoursTrue]

YoursTrue that’s correct there are a number of times that the God has manifested himself that way. Be that via a burning bush to Moses or as a angel when discussing the destruction of sodom with Abraham. From memory I think you you have the two Jehovahs mentioned also discussing the destruction of those cities as well. And than we do come to the Jacob who wrestles with the angel of the Lord. Sadly for Jacob this angel turns out to be another manifestation of God. I guess God must have really liked Jacob as he did not kill him. I dare say that Jacob was rather thankful as well to only walk or hobble away with a wonky leg for the rest of his life Especially once he realised who he was wrestling with. . I fully understand and agree with what you say that we can look apon God in many ways. Just not apon his full glory at least until our redemption is finally finished and complete. So once again you have God in a manifested form and not in his actual full glory or Jacob would surely have died if he looked apon the full glory of God. That’s all I say if mere mortals were to look apon the full glory of God in our present state than you would surely die. YoursTrue you did mention Matthew 27:50-53 that there is much debate amongst scholars. There is always much debate amongst scholars I guess. And there shall continue to be more so as the days grow more dark and evil with each passing year. Actually We are warned that there are those who diligently and willingly go out to.corrupt the word of God. I guess you have to evaluate the scholar. Is the bible a mere Book of myth , legend and borrowed stories to him. Or does he believe that the bible is the actual word.of God.

Sometimes I look at an interlinear and compare the translations to make sure of my understanding. There's more to it about seeing God and these ones not dying, but we can talk about it another time. It's kind of deep.

 

[Bird123]

No, that is correct, books do not always consist of the Truth. But I find this book, the Bible, does. Since we are discussing hell in this thread and what it is, there are various ways the different religions look at it. I find from my study of the Bible that hell is synonymous with the grave. And of course, some people are cremated, so they aren't buried in a coffin and grave. The word hell is used as a covering term.

Why not just say grave? Where does the fiery pit for eternity come in? Do these people really think God is going to discard any of His kids as mankind thinks or would?

I have seen many people try to tap dance around so they can justify believing in that holy book instead of working at Discovering what the Truth really is.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[YoursTrue]

Why not just say grave? Where does the fiery pit for eternity come in? Do these people really think God is going to discard any of His kids as mankind thinks or would?

I have seen many people try to tap dance around so they can justify believing in that holy book instead of working at Discovering what the Truth really is.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

As far as discarding any of his "kids," what makes you think that God is obliged to keep his "kids" alive forever?

 

[Bird123]

No, it certainly is not an excuse. But the reality is that the problems of mankind are way beyond mankind's ability to fix them. For instance -- pollution. That does not mean, however, that a conscientious person would throw motor oil or dangerous drugs and chemicals down the sink drain going to the drinking supply. But reality shows that it's impossible to 'fix' the world. The Bible says that God will remove all causes of trouble. That is why Jesus taught his disciples to pray for God's kingdom to come.

The problems of mankind are within mankind's reach to fix. The fix may not be easy, however the capability has always been there.

Much more information lives beyond the surface. God is fixing much more than you realize. The adversity pushes mankind toward resolution.

So many people want everything POOF! and it's all fixed. The reality is that the view is multi-angular. Pollution exists to teach mankind about the environment, ecosystems and how the world works. The sickness cause by pollution advances medical knowledge from many sides.

These problems caused by pollution pushes mankind to find ways of supplying energy pollution free. See how far the solar cell has come from it's first discovery. Chlorophyll is being studied since it works so well. Matter contains an almost unlimited amounts of energy. Clean Fusion is being worked on everyday. What about the electric car? With all these things and more, science is being advanced because of something bad---Pollution.

It's that way with so many things. Our goal is to have it made. God's goal is to teach His children. That is why so many do not understand God. They think only about themselves and having it made.

God's system works remarkably well. I would not count on Jesus or anyone coming down and fixing it all. Why? It's not broken.

I suggest instead of saying it can't be fixed, we all work together. One should never give up on fixing. Since our caveman days, mankind has come a long way in the fixing department. Is it really time to stop now?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

As far as discarding any of his "kids," what makes you think that God is obliged to keep his "kids" alive forever?

God is at a Higher Level. Is discarding your children really a Higher Level? Is discarding your children really an Intelligent act? Intelligence exists far beyond the actions and thinking of mankind.

God has made the decision before anything existed. We are all Spiritual beings in our true natures. We are all already eternal.

 

[YoursTrue]

God is at a Higher Level. Is discarding your children really a Higher Level? Is discarding your children really an Intelligent act? Intelligence exists far beyond the actions and thinking of mankind.

God has made the decision before anything existed. We are all Spiritual beings in our true natures. We are all already eternal.

So is the god you believe in obliged to keep someone that continues doing evil alive so that person can continue hurting others?

 

[YoursTrue]

The problems of mankind are within mankind's reach to fix. The fix may not be easy, however the capability has always been there....

How long do you think mankind has been around?

 

[YoursTrue]

Why not just say grave? Where does the fiery pit for eternity come in? Do these people really think God is going to discard any of His kids as mankind thinks or would?

I have seen many people try to tap dance around so they can justify believing in that holy book instead of working at Discovering what the Truth really is.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

The reason it doesn't say just 'grave,' is because there are different meanings for the terms. The idea of hell-fire is different than the grave.

 

[YoursTrue]

The problems of mankind are within mankind's reach to fix. The fix may not be easy, however the capability has always been there.

Much more information lives beyond the surface. God is fixing much more than you realize. The adversity pushes mankind toward resolution.

So many people want everything POOF! and it's all fixed. The reality is that the view is multi-angular. Pollution exists to teach mankind about the environment, ecosystems and how the world works. The sickness cause by pollution advances medical knowledge from many sides.

These problems caused by pollution pushes mankind to find ways of supplying energy pollution free. See how far the solar cell has come from it's first discovery. Chlorophyll is being studied since it works so well. Matter contains an almost unlimited amounts of energy. Clean Fusion is being worked on everyday. What about the electric car? With all these things and more, science is being advanced because of something bad---Pollution.

It's that way with so many things. Our goal is to have it made. God's goal is to teach His children. That is why so many do not understand God. They think only about themselves and having it made.

God's system works remarkably well. I would not count on Jesus or anyone coming down and fixing it all. Why? It's not broken.

I suggest instead of saying it can't be fixed, we all work together. One should never give up on fixing. Since our caveman days, mankind has come a long way in the fixing department. Is it really time to stop now?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

The problems mankind faces cannot be fixed by mankind. For instance, there are people killing one another, I'm not sure if you're aware of fracking but there are many political considerations for nations and people who put money, and not health or the good of others, first. Are you from the U.S.? If so, and you notice the politics, it's usually money first when it comes to what people want. It doesn't matter if they destroy the environment, or contribute to pollution as long as they're getting work and money. You know what's interesting, is what the Bible says about the flood that God caused to put out of existence bad people. The Bible says they were doing bad all the time.
Genesis 6 NIV: "The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord."

 

[YoursTrue]

God is at a Higher Level. Is discarding your children really a Higher Level? Is discarding your children really an Intelligent act? Intelligence exists far beyond the actions and thinking of mankind.

God has made the decision before anything existed. We are all Spiritual beings in our true natures. We are all already eternal.

The angels are spirit beings. They are not flesh and blood, although in the past they could take on flesh and blood and then disappear back into the spirit realm. We, however, are not spirit beings. There is a distinction between having a spirit and being a spirit. I hope eventually you will learn.

 

[YoursTrue]

... We are all already eternal.

No, we are not. We die. God allows certain ones to live forever, but since He is the Creator and Giver of life, He can take away life. He does however promise a resurrection.
"For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man." 1 Corinthians 15:21. Since the Bible speaks of death coming through a man, what man do you think it means?

 

[Prim969]

Sometimes I look at an interlinear and compare the translations to make sure of my understanding. There's more to it about seeing God and these ones not dying, but we can talk about it another time. It's kind of deep.

YoursTrue that’s just fine I’m sure all we can do is search a little deeper that’s all. Anyway I’m sure the Dr Frankenstein’s and the Dr Frankfurter’s of this world shall continue in their quest for the key to the elixir of life and of immortality ..

 

[YoursTrue]

YoursTrue that’s just fine I’m sure all we can do is search a little deeper that’s all. Anyway I’m sure the Dr Frankenstein’s and the Dr Frankfurter’s of this world shall continue in their quest for the key to the elixir of life and of immortality ..

The key to life is not something we are automatically given. And there are monstrous entities in this world, but it shall not always be like that. If you have a Bible, you might want to read Revelation 21:1-5. And have a nice day.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

if you can believe in the parables of the Carpenter.....
a rich man said to the angel....quench my thirst
and the angel said ….Nay, for there is a great divide between us
the rich man was in hell
and apparently ….an angel also
close enough to have conversation

However, I find we need to keep in mind a parable is an illustration or a story and Not a real happening.
The real happing is found at John 11:11-14 that the dead are sleeping. In a sleep-like state.
Jesus learned that 'sleeping conditions about the dead' from the old Hebrew Scriptures, such as:
- Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5

 

[URAVIP2ME]

...... Not that I believe that Matthew 27 50-53 has ever posed a problem. But let’s take a look at that possible explanation you mentioned. If we go with the earthquake scenario and that its only talking about the damage inflicted apon the tombs by the earthquake thus revealing the many dead bodies of the saints In their tombs . Than this would become problematic for In the next verse Matthew 27:53 it goes on to say ( and CAME OUT out of their graves AFTER HIS resurrection, and WENT INTO the holy city and APPEARED unto MANY ) this is talking bodily functions In motion. To go from their tombs and to visit And be seen by others amongst the holy city to whom appeared unto to many. Another problem would be If they were not fully bodily resurrected than how could they be recognised? I mean a lot of those people would have been in varying stages of decay probably many were just bones and what a nightmare that would have been having all these skeletons and half decayed bodies walking around the streets. So it had to be a full bodily resurrection body for them to be recognised as well. Yes Jesus was truly the first resurrection of immortality while the other resurrections mentioned were only temporary ones . Whereas with the future resurrection body that we all do await for that shall be a non perishable body as well perfect in every way.

To me Not problematic because the ' and came out.... ' is Not speaking about the dead but the living people who witnessed that earthquake, they are the ones who ' came out....'
The living have bodily functions in motion.
The corpses ' arose ' (were Not resurrected) so it was the living who were recognized.
So, it was No resurrection for the saints or holy ones because they would Not be resurrected before Jesus.
No temporary resurrection done or caused by an earthquake.
Saints / holy ones would Not be resurrected to heavenly life before Jesus would take future kingly power.
Jesus was Not resurrected the day he died. The day Jesus died he went to the grave - Acts of the Apostles 2:27.

 

[Bird123]

So is the god you believe in obliged to keep someone that continues doing evil alive so that person can continue hurting others?

All God's children will be educated.When one truly understands all sides, intelligence will choose the Best choices. Bad choices will no longer be viable choices one could make. Since there is no time limit on learning,all God's children will make it.

A Higher Level does not judge then label a person as evil, then discard such person. That never really solves the problem.

Hurting is no more than a sign something is wrong. One must see the entire picture rather than look at only the pain. So much more information lives beyond the surface waiting for you to discover it

Finally, God is not a Belief.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

How long do you think mankind has been around?

Millions of years on Earth.

 

[Bird123]

The problems mankind faces cannot be fixed by mankind. For instance, there are people killing one another, I'm not sure if you're aware of fracking but there are many political considerations for nations and people who put money, and not health or the good of others, first. Are you from the U.S.? If so, and you notice the politics, it's usually money first when it comes to what people want. It doesn't matter if they destroy the environment, or contribute to pollution as long as they're getting work and money. You know what's interesting, is what the Bible says about the flood that God caused to put out of existence bad people. The Bible says they were doing bad all the time.
Genesis 6 NIV: "The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord."

Just like all the physics of this world add up completely, so does the people factor. The people factor is much more complicated simply because there are many more variables. If you short cut, then choose to hate, how can you ever hope to Understand what it's all about.

You see the world as a mess. I see it as a MASTERPIECE!! Which do you think God really created??

There is so very much you have not Discovered and are blind to. If you choose, like religion, to value the petty things like blaming, judging, hating, condemning and such, how can you ever hope to understand what a Higher Level is?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

There is order to chaos once you understand the order. HIGHER LEVEL THINKING!!

 

[Bird123]

The angels are spirit beings. They are not flesh and blood, although in the past they could take on flesh and blood and then disappear back into the spirit realm. We, however, are not spirit beings. There is a distinction between having a spirit and being a spirit. I hope eventually you will learn.

WE are spiritual beings in our true natures. I have direct experience to this. This physical universe exists for only one reason. It's time-based causal nature is perfect for learning

Perhaps,you should work at discovering the difference between your physical body and who you really are.

Find a dark, quiet room without distractions. Focus inward. Say to yourself---It's me.

If you still have problems telling the difference seek out the youngest of people. Many can still tell the difference.

It seems this physical world has so much sensory input that is doesn't take long into seducing one into thinking the physical world is all there is.

This would be something good for anyone to work on who does not know who they are.

That's what I see.. It's very clear!!