God is in control, what does that mean?

[Trailblazer]

Last night I heard about a road rage incident on the TV wherein a six-year old child was shot to death in the car his mother was driving.

I copied down exactly what the school pastor said:

“I try to just lay it out to them in a simple way so that they can understand that bad things happen even to a godly situation…

God’s in control, we try to make them understand what that means.”

What is that supposed to mean? Is that supposed to make people feel better? Are people who say that rather naive, or do they just have strong faith?

I believe that God is I control, but I do not understand what that means to this pastor. I only know what it means according to my Baha’i beliefs, as noted below.

“Know thou, O fruit of My Tree, that the decrees of the Sovereign Ordainer, as related to fate and predestination, are of two kinds. Both are to be obeyed and accepted. The one is irrevocable, the other is, as termed by men, impending. To the former all must unreservedly submit, inasmuch as it is fixed and settled. God, however, is able to alter or repeal it. As the harm that must result from such a change will be greater than if the decree had remained unaltered, all, therefore, should willingly acquiesce in what God hath willed and confidently abide by the same.

The decree that is impending, however, is such that prayer and entreaty can succeed in averting it.

God grant that thou who art the fruit of My Tree, and they that are associated with thee, may be shielded from its evil consequences.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 133

 

[exchemist]

Last night I heard about a road rage incident on the TV wherein a six-year old child was shot to death in the car his mother was driving.

I copied down exactly what the school pastor said:

“I try to just lay it out to them in a simple way so that they can understand that bad things happen even to a godly situation…

God’s in control, we try to make them understand what that means.”

What is that supposed to mean? Is that supposed to make people feel better? Are people who say that rather naive, or do they just have strong faith?

I believe that God is I control, but I do not understand what that means to this pastor. I only know what it means according to my Baha’i beliefs, as noted below.

“Know thou, O fruit of My Tree, that the decrees of the Sovereign Ordainer, as related to fate and predestination, are of two kinds. Both are to be obeyed and accepted. The one is irrevocable, the other is, as termed by men, impending. To the former all must unreservedly submit, inasmuch as it is fixed and settled. God, however, is able to alter or repeal it. As the harm that must result from such a change will be greater than if the decree had remained unaltered, all, therefore, should willingly acquiesce in what God hath willed and confidently abide by the same.

The decree that is impending, however, is such that prayer and entreaty can succeed in averting it.

God grant that thou who art the fruit of My Tree, and they that are associated with thee, may be shielded from its evil consequences.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 133

I think God is in control simply means we are not and there is nothing we can do about it. Which is often true in life, but not specially comforting.

 

[MatthewA]

How unfortunate for that family to have to deal with that incident. What ever the full story must be, there must have been a lot anger, and hatred from the person who pulled the trigger. Hate it for both parties.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I think God is in control simply means we are not and there is nothing we can do about it. Which is often true in life, but not specially comforting.

Actually it can be quite liberating, to accept your own powerlessness. Many of us waste enormous amounts of psychic energy trying to impose our will on the world. Meanwhile, the world turns, in it's own time, in spite rather than because of our best efforts.

 

[exchemist]

How unfortunate for that family to have to deal with that incident. What ever the full story must be, there must have been a lot anger, and hatred from the person who pulled the trigger. Hate it for both parties.

Yes.

But in this case, there is something that can be done. Get rid of the guns. Without them, that child would still be alive today.

 

[exchemist]

Actually it can be quite liberating, to accept your own powerlessness. Many of us waste enormous amounts of psychic energy trying to impose our will on the world. Meanwhile, the world turns, in it's own time, in spite rather than because of our best efforts.

Yes, I do agree with that. Learning to accept what one cannot control is valuable.

 

[MatthewA]

Yes.

But in this case, there is something that can be done. Get rid of the guns. Without them, that child would still be alive today.

Exchemist;
Sure you are right and can take guns away, but that doesn't stop anyone from trying to choke a person out instead. Gun is just the subjective problem while the problem remains that a human being made the conscious choice to kill someone (unless they were under some type of drug: and not only just filled with rage, hatred, and anger). Of course this is my own opinion.

 

[Trailblazer]

Learning to accept what one cannot control is valuable.

More than valuable.

 

[Trailblazer]

Sure you are right and can take guns away, but that doesn't stop anyone from trying to choke a person out instead.

But they are not going to stop the car, get out of the car, and choke someone they are angry at.
Imo, gun laws should be what they are in Japan but that will never happen in the U.S. because Americans value liberty more than life.

Compare/contrast gun laws in Japan to the United States.

Japan has almost completely eliminated gun deaths — here's how

• Japan is a country of more than 127 million people, but it rarely sees more than 10 gun deaths a year.
• Culture is one reason for the low rate, but gun control is a major one, too.
• Japan has a long list of tests that applicants must pass before gaining access to a small pool of guns.

Japan has almost completely eliminated gun deaths — here's how

The weapons law of Japan begins by stating "No one shall possess a firearm or firearms or a sword or swords", and very few exceptions are allowed. Citizens are permitted to possess firearms for hunting and sport shooting, but only after submitting to a lengthy licensing procedure.

Overview of gun laws by nation - Wikipedia

 

[MikeF]

But they are not going to stop the car, get out of the car, and choke someone they are angry at.
Imo, gun laws should be what they are in Japan but that will never happen in the U.S. because Americans value liberty more than life.

Compare/contrast gun laws in Japan to the United States.

Japan has almost completely eliminated gun deaths — here's how

• Japan is a country of more than 127 million people, but it rarely sees more than 10 gun deaths a year.
• Culture is one reason for the low rate, but gun control is a major one, too.
• Japan has a long list of tests that applicants must pass before gaining access to a small pool of guns.

Japan has almost completely eliminated gun deaths — here's how

The weapons law of Japan begins by stating "No one shall possess a firearm or firearms or a sword or swords", and very few exceptions are allowed. Citizens are permitted to possess firearms for hunting and sport shooting, but only after submitting to a lengthy licensing procedure.

Overview of gun laws by nation - Wikipedia

For me, these two comments beg the question, "What is the comparative murder rate from all causes, between different countries/societies?" In this way we might get some insight as to whether murder rate is mainly a gun problem, or an innate human problem that cannot be legislated away.

Edit: Did some internet surfing:

There are several countries, however, that have exceptionally low homicide rates. The ten countries with the lowest murder rates are:

1. Japan (0.2)
2. Singapore (0.2)
3. China, Hong Kong (0.3)
4. Luxembourg (0.3)
5. Indonesia (0.4)
6. Norway (0.5)
7. Oman (0.5)
8. Switzerland (0.5)
9. United Arab Emirates (0.5)
10. China (0.6)

Murder Rate By Country 2021

Looks like strict gun laws may have a significant impact. However, one cannot discount possible effects of east vs west culture as the bulk of represented populations are in Asia.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

For me, these two comments beg the question, "What is the comparative murder rate from all causes, between different countries/societies?" In this way we might get some insight as to whether murder rate is mainly a gun problem, or an innate human problem that cannot be legislated away.

Edit: Did some internet surfing:

There are several countries, however, that have exceptionally low homicide rates. The ten countries with the lowest murder rates are:

1. Japan (0.2)
2. Singapore (0.2)
3. China, Hong Kong (0.3)
4. Luxembourg (0.3)
5. Indonesia (0.4)
6. Norway (0.5)
7. Oman (0.5)
8. Switzerland (0.5)
9. United Arab Emirates (0.5)
10. China (0.6)

Murder Rate By Country 2021

Looks like strict gun laws may have a significant impact. However, one cannot discount possible effects of east vs west culture as the bulk of represented populations are in Asia.

Quick answer is that it's almost impossible to know.
We (Australia) implemented increased gun control measures in the wake of a massacre in Tasmania in 1996 (35 deaths).
Homicides (as well as homicides involving guns) both dropped over the years following that, and there were no mass shootings (classified as shootings involving 5 deaths) for about 22 years or so following the law changes, which was substantially better than in the period before it.

However...homicides generally followed that pattern in other countries similar to us regardless of gun control laws. There appeared to be some sort of more general societal trend. That doesn't exclude gun laws having impact, but it does make it hard to quantify that impact.
And whilst mass shootings vanished from our landscape for many years (and there has certainly been nothing like Port Arthur since) the quantity of such events we had here was pretty low overall, so statistically it's somewhat difficult to offer that as proof of anything.

To be clear, I'm glad we put the laws in place, and I'm pro-gun control. But there isn't a slam dunk cause and effect relationship between gun control and overall levels of violence in a society. My rationale is a little more abstract than that, to be honest.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes.

But in this case, there is something that can be done. Get rid of the guns. Without them, that child would still be alive today.

Great, now this will be another gun control thread. Thanks.

 

[osgart]

Last night I heard about a road rage incident on the TV wherein a six-year old child was shot to death in the car his mother was driving.

I copied down exactly what the school pastor said:

“I try to just lay it out to them in a simple way so that they can understand that bad things happen even to a godly situation…

God’s in control, we try to make them understand what that means.”

What is that supposed to mean? Is that supposed to make people feel better? Are people who say that rather naive, or do they just have strong faith?

I believe that God is I control, but I do not understand what that means to this pastor. I only know what it means according to my Baha’i beliefs, as noted below.

“Know thou, O fruit of My Tree, that the decrees of the Sovereign Ordainer, as related to fate and predestination, are of two kinds. Both are to be obeyed and accepted. The one is irrevocable, the other is, as termed by men, impending. To the former all must unreservedly submit, inasmuch as it is fixed and settled. God, however, is able to alter or repeal it. As the harm that must result from such a change will be greater than if the decree had remained unaltered, all, therefore, should willingly acquiesce in what God hath willed and confidently abide by the same.

The decree that is impending, however, is such that prayer and entreaty can succeed in averting it.

God grant that thou who art the fruit of My Tree, and they that are associated with thee, may be shielded from its evil consequences.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 133

Are you at all saying that no matter what befalls a living creature on Earth, that it's all going to work out for the greatest good? Tsunamis and death are just tools of a higher purpose!

For me, if there is a god we stand outside God's providence. I don't know what the almighty reason for that is.

Everything in existence that is set in motion certainly has the strong appearance that right and purpose is a beggar in the universe.

 

[InChrist]

Yes.

But in this case, there is something that can be done. Get rid of the guns. Without them, that child would still be alive today.

I doubt it. There’s always black market availability and criminals get guns illegally anyway.

 

[InChrist]

Last night I heard about a road rage incident on the TV wherein a six-year old child was shot to death in the car his mother was driving.

I copied down exactly what the school pastor said:

“I try to just lay it out to them in a simple way so that they can understand that bad things happen even to a godly situation…

God’s in control, we try to make them understand what that means.”

What is that supposed to mean? Is that supposed to make people feel better? Are people who say that rather naive, or do they just have strong faith?

I believe that God is I control, but I do not understand what that means to this pastor. I only know what it means according to my Baha’i beliefs, as noted below.

I don’t know exactly what that pastor meant and each person may have slightly different thoughts. Likely Christians say that as a reminder that even in the midst of very terrible situations God is above the difficulties and heartaches of life here on earth with a bigger plan and an eternal hope.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Yes.

But in this case, there is something that can be done. Get rid of the guns. Without them, that child would still be alive today.

Unless a modern day Stalin or Hitler comes on the scene.

 

[Trailblazer]

Are you at all saying that no matter what befalls a living creature on Earth, that it's all going to work out for the greatest good?

Given free will, I think that will depend upon a person's trust in God, but it a person truly believes and has faith, I think it will work out for the greatest good.

 

[George-ananda]

Last night I heard about a road rage incident on the TV wherein a six-year old child was shot to death in the car his mother was driving.

I copied down exactly what the school pastor said:

“I try to just lay it out to them in a simple way so that they can understand that bad things happen even to a godly situation…

God’s in control, we try to make them understand what that means.”

What is that supposed to mean? Is that supposed to make people feel better? Are people who say that rather naive, or do they just have strong faith?

I believe that God is I control, but I do not understand what that means to this pastor. I only know what it means according to my Baha’i beliefs, as noted below.

“Know thou, O fruit of My Tree, that the decrees of the Sovereign Ordainer, as related to fate and predestination, are of two kinds. Both are to be obeyed and accepted. The one is irrevocable, the other is, as termed by men, impending. To the former all must unreservedly submit, inasmuch as it is fixed and settled. God, however, is able to alter or repeal it. As the harm that must result from such a change will be greater than if the decree had remained unaltered, all, therefore, should willingly acquiesce in what God hath willed and confidently abide by the same.

The decree that is impending, however, is such that prayer and entreaty can succeed in averting it.

God grant that thou who art the fruit of My Tree, and they that are associated with thee, may be shielded from its evil consequences.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 133

To me, it means cosmic justice and goodness will always prevail even if we can't understand it from our limited perspective.

 

[Neuropteron]

God’s in control, we try to make them understand what that means.”[/I]

What is that supposed to mean? Is that supposed to make people feel better? Are people who say that rather naive, or do they just have strong faith?

Hi,
The only thing that will make us feel better is the truth.
The truth is that until the designated time, Satan is in control of the world, not the creator.

1 John 5:19 "The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one".

The promise that that time is close is comforting.
As is the resurrection hope.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Unless a modern day Stalin or Hitler comes on the scene.

Recent events would suggest that heavy weaponry in the hands of civilians is as likely to be part of the problem as the solution, I would have thought.