God is nice and is doing his best to eliminate suffering.

[QuestioningMind]

Salam
These questions are loaded as I believe Quran is a book of clear insights and proves the proper religion but this would be straying off topic into a different one then op which is presenting islam as far as theodicy goes and seeing if it’s valued defense. From point of view Islam guidance to the truth exists.

I don't know what you mean when you say these questions are 'loaded'. It seems to me they are the most pertinent questions you can ask if you're attempting to decide if some god being is doing all it can to alleviate human suffering.

 

[KWED]

Salam

It looks bad, but if enough of a significant amount of people helped sincerely, all suffering would be eliminated and we would still get to ascend to God with free-will. Now, because we disobey him and aren't sincerely in replying to him, it looks bad on him that he has not forced the issue.

How will enough "people helping sincerely" end earthquakes or droughts or cancer or psychopaths?
Obviously it is not something humans can achieve by themselves so it must be god's actions which will stop them. And if god will only stop them once people have achieved some arbitrary target god has set, then god is a twat and he should have just stopped it millennia ago. I would have if I was god. In fact, I wouldn't have created them in the first place.

 

[KWED]

Salam

God knows all possible things, you can't know results of free-will for it to be free.
God has capability of doing all possible things, he can't make 1 + 3 =7 for example.

Unfortunately, many people here don't appreciate that you have invented your own, new version of "Islam". They make the mistake of assuming that because you claim to be a "Muslim", you therefore accept the basic tenets of Islam.

Perhaps you should start all of your threads with an explanation to avoid these misunderstandings?

 

[KWED]

Salam

It looks bad that all that was needed was humanity to enjoin on each other good and forbid evil, and we all walk together upon the path, when most of us would not do it. God entrusted to carry one another upon the path and it was not unlikely this happens. Rather, we live in what is a very unlikely outcome.

If we had compassion for one another, it would've been easy.

Plenty of people have compassion or are too young to have had the opportunity to develop or display it, they they still suffer. Why doesn't god just allow suffering for those without compassion rather than including innocent infants?

 

[KWED]

Salam
These questions are loaded as I believe Quran is a book of clear insights and proves the proper religion but this would be straying off topic into a different one then op which is presenting islam as far as theodicy goes and seeing if it’s valued defense. From point of view Islam guidance to the truth exists.

No. It is your position that is "loaded". You assume the Quran is true because you believe it is, but you have no more substance to that belief than those who think the Bible or the Vedas or Bahaullah's writings or whatever are true. Any "argument" that you can present applies just as well to everyone else's beliefs, and is therefore meaningless.

 

[KWED]

Salam

Future doesn’t exist so can’t be known for example is an absolute fact unless God is not going to create free choices and force us to not allow will.

So you believe that Allah is merely an observer of events.
So, what causes those events? And why isn't that "god" rather than someone who merely observes the events without any foreknowledge or control? I mean, I can do that.

 

[Tiberius]

Salam

Future doesn’t exist so can’t be known for example is an absolute fact unless God is not going to create free choices and force us to not allow will.

Are you sure?

Jeremiah 29:11 says that God has plans for us.

Job 14:5 says that God knows how long we will live.

Psalms 139:4 says that God knows what we will say before we say it.

Psalms 139:16 says that God sees all of a person's days before they are even born.

John 16:13 says that "the Spirit of Truth" will declare the things to come (and let's face it, that's probably God. And even if it isn't, sure God can be told what is to come by the Spirit of Truth, right?).

Ephesians 2:10 says that God prepared the works we will do beforehand.

Isaiah 46:9-10 says that God declares the end from the beginning.

And the ability to see the future would seem to be required for prophecies to be real.

 

[PearlSeeker]

God is the originator of the mess (due to his faulty engineering). He was not a qualified engineer, there were no universities at that time. Just some tinkerer and the results prove that.

There were electricians at the time. When He said "let there be light" the cables where already installed.

 

[Link]

I don't know what you mean when you say these questions are 'loaded'. It seems to me they are the most pertinent questions you can ask if you're attempting to decide if some god being is doing all it can to alleviate human suffering.

Salam

They are important questions, just not on point for this OP. Loaded means they have an implication that is arguable in the first place, and so I don't agree with the "facts" that come with your questions.

 

[Link]

Are you sure?
.

Salam

Yes, and Prophecies in Quran are almost all conditional. This why the warnings regarding the Mahdi are meant to be avoided.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Salam

They are important questions, just not on point for this OP. Loaded means they have an implication that is arguable in the first place, and so I don't agree with the "facts" that come with your questions.

How can the OP have any point unless you first determine that there IS some god being?

Please point out what part of what I wrote you don't agree with.

 

[Tiberius]

Salam

Yes, and Prophecies in Quran are almost all conditional. This why the warnings regarding the Mahdi are meant to be avoided.

You didn't respond to any of the passages I mentioned. I assume that's because they were from the Bible and you instead take the Quran to be the correct holy text?

 

[Trailblazer]

And if god will only stop them once people have achieved some arbitrary target god has set, then god is a twat and he should have just stopped it millennia ago. I would have if I was god. In fact, I wouldn't have created them in the first place.

So you know more than God about what is best for humans?

 

[KWED]

So you know more than God about what is best for humans?

It would seem so, yes.
After all, he isn't even human so how would he know what's best for us. Pretty much every action he takes seems to show a complete lack of understanding of reality or reason or logic.

 

[Link]

You didn't respond to any of the passages I mentioned. I assume that's because they were from the Bible and you instead take the Quran to be the correct holy text?

Salam

If Quran said God knew the future absolutely and outcomes are set and can't be unwritten, it would be a false book.

 

[Link]

How can the OP have any point unless you first determine that there IS some god being?

Please point out what part of what I wrote you don't agree with.

Salam

I've explained this before. When talking about for example a different topic such as "hell", you don't discuss proofs for God, although hell would not exist without a God. If we are going to talk about why from paradigm disbelief is condemned so bad in Quran, you have to understand it from it's own paradigm. Of course, you can dispute in other threads what form that paradigm.

Same with the OP.

 

[Link]

No. It is your position that is "loaded". You assume the Quran is true because you believe it is, but you have no more substance to that belief than those who think the Bible or the Vedas or Bahaullah's writings or whatever are true. Any "argument" that you can present applies just as well to everyone else's beliefs, and is therefore meaningless.

Salam

But the point of the OP is to provide a potential theodicy. When discussing theodicy, it's simple looked it if solves the issue of evil and sufferings. Also see my post above to @QuestioningMind .

 

[Link]

Plenty of people have compassion or are too young to have had the opportunity to develop or display it, they they still suffer. Why doesn't god just allow suffering for those without compassion rather than including innocent infants?

Salam

The system if God would interfere with kids would be one without trial as well for obvious reasons.

 

[KWED]

Salam

The system if God would interfere with kids would be one without trial as well for obvious reasons.

But god clearly does interfere with kids (your words, not mine!).

 

[Link]

But god clearly does interfere with kids (your words, not mine!).

Salam

True, but not in a way, that makes the meaning of the trial of will go away.