God is not in the Big Bang

[Mike182]

String theory hasn't been proven, it is one possibility in many of how the universe was formed. I also have a problem with this idea of "God" being somethign tangable i dont think that we can say "this is how the big bang happened therefore god dosn't exist".

no matter how scientists theorise about hwo the universe came into being, theologians will get God into it somehow :rainbow1:

 

[drew22]

yes, here is a religious scripture that ties in the Big Bang :

In the beginning the universe went out of balance, and therefore God had to start the creation. Now scientists call it the Big Bang. The truth is that God started and then He created the super nova to have the basic elements, heavy material, to create the stars and the galaxies. When the galaxies and a part of them is not working, He put them through the black holes and made them go back to the basic materials to create more opportunities to help the lost Souls to go back home. There is a beautiful Logic behind the creation. Those who can understand this process can see that there is a Logic, there is a God, and there is a Mind behind the creation. Maitreya, The Eternal Divine Path

 

[drew22]

here is another one on big bang from the same book: Creation started by Unconscious Mind (God) was awakened. This released the raja guna (energy) and so the tama guna (crudifying force) gained hold on the consciousness. This resulted in the rise of desire (dot, the big bang). Desire is the movement (vibration) directed toward the external world. That is why the dot above is orange-red (desire). This original movement put the creation into motion. The three creative forces, presented by blue, orange-red and white in The Greatest Sign, were released (the I-Ching). This movement evolved to the awakening of the Universal Spirit (the Lotus). This Universal Spirit (God) reached into the Universe (the triangle downward). This is what is called, in Genesis, The Spirit of God moved over the waters. Maitreya, The Eternal Divine Path

 

[johannes]

You can not create something from nothing and this has led to the religious theroy that the Big Bang must have been intitiated by God for something (the universe) was created from nothing (the state of matter/energy previous to the Big Bang) If a cause, other than God, was found that explained the Big Bang, then it would not be neccessary for God to exist.

Well, folks, we have proof in mathematical theroy that we know what was present previous to the Big Bang. Basically, it goes like this -

• the universe we live in is not seem as particles but as strings
• strings exist in 22 or 21 dimensions and fewer
• strings are the component of membranes (shortened to "branes")
• membranes encompass both 21 and 22 dimensions
• M Theroy (membranes) have an infinite number of branes comprised of an infinite number of strings
• when interaction is weak the string looks like a string
• when the interaction is strong the strings "unwrap" into a membrane
• membranes ripple (a wave motion) and the collision of two membranes created the Big Bang producing the pecularities of our universe by the circumstances of the ripples
• an infinate number of collisions have taken place producing an infinite number of universes
• each universe created by a collision is considered an alternate universe to ours
• the science fiction "parallel" universe is confirmed by the M Therory.
• the laws of physics may be different in each universe.

Not only does the creation story not reflect the actual galaxy we live in, it does not reflect the universe we live in except from an extrapolation from a melding of science and a mythological creation story. If the concept of God is to be kept, then it will be imposible to prove that there are not an infinite number of gods. Rather, it seems more and more likely that God will take a "back seat" to science and beneficial only for a mythological basis for human existence and conduct.

-pah-

there was a previous universe before the big bang according to the bible. this universe was not fertile and could not create "children" and for this reason the big bang followed out of "material" from the previous universe to create this temporary creation untill the visible and invisible will fuse together to be one living being. johan.

 

[Halcyon]

no matter how scientists theorise about hwo the universe came into being, theologians will get God into it somehow :rainbow1:

Easy peasy. God made the strings .

 

[Flappycat]

Well, I say the strings were created by an evil shadow dragon. That just blows your god dude out of the water, so take that.

 

[zoro]

Bight-ness: Your initial assumption, “You cannot create something form nothing”, contains the premiss that there’s “something” here. In reality, it’s fairly well established that, in total, there’s nothing here: no [net] electrical charge, no [total] momentum, and the total energy of the universe sums to zero. That is, to form “something” (say, S) from “nothing (symbolized with zero, 0), then “just” separate zero into positive and negative components: 0 = S – S.

I show some details in the first chapter of my (free) online book at www.zenofzero.net; the “zen of zero” refers (in part) to the creation of the universe from nothing, presumably via some symmetry-breaking fluctuation in a “total void”. Of course, no one knows what the first “symmetry breaker” was; my guess is that it was either a “string” of (positive) energy or a particle.

I should admit, however, that questions remain about whether there’s any [net] entropy in our universe. Certainly there’s (positive) entropy on our “positive side of reality", but the challenge is to define an “appropriate” entropy of space or the vacuum. At http://www.advancedphysics.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6992 , I’ve posed the question, submitted a very sketchy idea, and asked for comments from senior physicists, but so far, no “takers”.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

But not a fact. Right?

hmmmmm......

The theory (By Many) that a god did it.

Nice theory for when you truly don't have the ansewrs but not a fact...


Right??????

 

[Dirty Penguin]

"Harmony" seems kind of subjective. I certainly wouldn't call deadly earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. as harmonious, nor would I describe a universe that contains black holes and other freaky 'objects' as harmonious.

I would tend to agree and disagree with this.

Some of the things that happen on earth may be a result of our own doing. Ozone, melting north and south pole.....

The planets revolving around the sun, the moons of the planets in their orbit ect... ect...

Why couldn't we consider this ("Harmony")....

 

[logician]

God concepts are man-made, and can be unmade . Science is the search for truth, and the truth is no god is needed in an eternal multiverse.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

God is not in the BANG, I agree. What CAUSED the BANG? There is no evidence, but the bang is the initial effect of all that exists. How can one have an effect without a cause?
That's where science can never go, and mankind can never prove. Its entirely mysterious.

"Lauded be Thy name, O Lord my God! I testify that Thou wast a hidden Treasure wrapped within 49 Thine immemorial Being and an impenetrable Mystery enshrined in Thine own Essence. Wishing to reveal Thyself, Thou didst call into being the Greater and the Lesser Worlds, and didst choose Man above all Thy creatures, and didst make Him a sign of both of these worlds, O Thou Who art our Lord, the Most Compassionate!"
(Baha'u'llah, Prayers and Meditations by Baha'u'llah, p. 48)

By the by why cannot God exist without time? That's not a warranted assumption.

Regards,
Scott

I hear ya.... but to say God did it means that one must believe without proof that a god exist. Then one must assume this make believe god did it.

If there's no way to test this assumption then how can people expect others to simply except it to be truth or fact?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

As such in my opinion (though not an expert opinion) God is the only LOGICAL cause of the universe.

Why?....because you say so...so it is?

You can't prove that a god is the cause. You can't even prove that this god exist. These are assumptions....

 

[Flappycat]

God concepts are man-made, and can be unmade . Science is the search for truth, and the truth is no god is needed in an eternal multiverse.

What about the shadow dragon? You have to admit that an evil shadow dragon is tremendously cooler than a god. Besides, dragons are more fashionable.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I see a lot of people are focusing on strings and string theory here, but thats not the only theory. There are also quantum gravity, loop quantum gravity, and the five or so different versions of string theory and super string theory. It basically all comes down to one simple fact, we cant explain the universe. This is why I dont understand why people can be so sure God does not exist, when we cant even explain why we exist much less God. How are we supposed to explain something larger then us when we cant even explain us? However the search for a quantum gravity theory is extremley interesting. If anyone wants to learn more about it I suggest Three Roads to Quantum Gravity by Lee Smolin. Its a very good book that does a great job at explaining. Ive already read it and I actually gave a group speech in COM last week on this topic.

look...again.... without having an answer you believe there must be something larger than you then you call it god and make the assumtption the it is responsilble.

Why do you assume that there is something larger than you that must be in control?
Sure we don't know all that there is to know about ourselves or the universe but with......dare I say it?????........SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY.....(woooh glad to get that off my chest).....we are getting closer and closer and discovering more and more about ourselves as well as the universe...


Remember.....people use to believe the world was flat.....and the sun revolved around the earth....

Now with our many discoveries in such a short amount of time we have learned alot. This isn't the end of discovery. We can debate all we want but 5... or 10 thousand years from now we may know more than what we know now.....(Assuming we don't blow the planet up)...

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I have no problem with the big bang theory. When God created the universe it went bang. Problem solved.

Nice one......

Do you have any evidence to back this up........?????

 

[Dirty Penguin]

no matter how scientists theorise about hwo the universe came into being, theologians will get God into it somehow :rainbow1:

I agree.....

 

[Dirty Penguin]

yes, here is a religious scripture that ties in the Big Bang :

In the beginning the universe went out of balance, and therefore God had to start the creation. Now scientists call it the Big Bang. The truth is that God started and then He created the super nova to have the basic elements, heavy material, to create the stars and the galaxies. When the galaxies and a part of them is not working, He put them through the black holes and made them go back to the basic materials to create more opportunities to help the lost Souls to go back home. There is a beautiful Logic behind the creation. Those who can understand this process can see that there is a Logic, there is a God, and there is a Mind behind the creation. Maitreya, The Eternal Divine Path

What book is this????

I guess because it was written then so shall it be??????

This really sounds like an interpertation of Genesis

 

[Dirty Penguin]

there was a previous universe before the big bang according to the bible. this universe was not fertile and could not create "children" and for this reason the big bang followed out of "material" from the previous universe to create this temporary creation untill the visible and invisible will fuse together to be one living being. johan.

Can you show me where it says this???

 

[Dirty Penguin]

What about the shadow dragon? You have to admit that an evil shadow dragon is tremendously cooler than a god. Besides, dragons are more fashionable.

You are incorrect...Their bible says that God created evil....So this means he created the evil dragon...meaning he is cooler than the dragon....


Now Evil Monkeys are another subject....

 

[Flappycat]

You are incorrect...Their bible says that God created evil....So this means he created the evil dragon...meaning he is cooler than the dragon....

Nonsense! Everyone knows that all things arise from ultimate evil! Repent, or thou shalt be gobbled!