God is not the sole cause of creation

[robo]

Greetings all:

Do you believe that God is the sole and only cause of creation?

If yes, why did not creation happen 5 minutes earlier than when it actually did?

In other words, what are the necessary and sufficient conditions needed for creation? If these conditions were always available, why did NOT creation happen at some other time than when it actually did?

Thus, there are multiple causes of creation.

Thoughts?

 

[InChrist]

Greetings all:

Do you believe that God is the sole and only cause of creation?

If yes, why did not creation happen 5 minutes earlier than when it actually did?

In other words, what are the necessary and sufficient conditions needed for creation? If these conditions were always available, why did NOT creation happen at some other time than when it actually did?

Thus, there are multiple causes of creation.

Thoughts?

Time is not relevant to God. God is eternal and resides in eternity. According to the scriptures God spoke and creation occurred. There were no necessary or sufficient conditions required.

 

[Adso]

This is like asking Picasso why he didn't start his Blue Period earlier... A creative instinct is a spontaneous thing.

 

[Madhuri]

According to Veda (Hinduism), there was never a beginning and will never be an end. For eternity, the universe has endured cycles of creation and destruction. The universe we live in right now was not created 5 minutes earlier because it was too busy dying and preparing for rebirth.

 

[robo]

Time is not relevant to God. God is eternal and resides in eternity.

Well, you just contradicted yourself within the span of two sentences. In the first, you say time is not relevant to God. In the next sentence you are using terms like "eternal" and "eternity", etc. When is something "eternal" as per you? I am hoping you can give a definition without taking recourse to time since you hold that is not relevant to God.

According to the scriptures God spoke and creation occurred. There were no necessary or sufficient conditions required.

The point is, when did God speak? Why didnt that happen 5 minutes earlier than when it actually did? What was God waiting for?

 

[robo]

This is like asking Picasso why he didn't start his Blue Period earlier... A creative instinct is a spontaneous thing.

Are you sure you want to stick with this analogy? Because if you do, it is going to be a defeater for Christianity. Here's why.

Picasso didnt start his Blue Period 100 years before when he actually did because he didnt exist 100 years before when he actually did!

 

[robo]

According to Veda (Hinduism), there was never a beginning and will never be an end. For eternity, the universe has endured cycles of creation and destruction. The universe we live in right now was not created 5 minutes earlier because it was too busy dying and preparing for rebirth.

This is by far the most reasonable response in this thread thus far...All other responses seem to find fault with the question but you have actually answered the question.

Thanks for that.

So, God is not the sole cause of creation, according to the Vedas, yes? What are the other co-causes?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Greetings all:

Do you believe that God is the sole and only cause of creation?

No. God in the theistic vernacular is make believe.

 

[Inthedark]

God, whatever that might, must be first cause. From there, the clockwork universe rolls along according to nature, or God's law's if you like. Anything that pops in and out of existence within those laws must do so according to them. So in answer to your question I suppose God is the sole cause of creation, but is also unknowable to us at our current level of development. I haven't much of an idea what I'm talking about but thats as good an answer as any isn't it?

 

[Me Myself]

According to Veda (Hinduism), there was never a beginning and will never be an end. For eternity, the universe has endured cycles of creation and destruction. The universe we live in right now was not created 5 minutes earlier because it was too busy dying and preparing for rebirth.

She tends to copy my answers before I give them.

And have the nerve to put them so eloquently that I must quote it from HER.

In any case, that´s pretty much my take

I would pretty much only add that he didn´t make it 5 minutes sooner cause there wasn´t time when the other universe ended dying, and then time poped up again.

Eternity is eternity anyways.

 

[Madhuri]

This is by far the most reasonable response in this thread thus far...All other responses seem to find fault with the question but you have actually answered the question.

Thanks for that.

So, God is not the sole cause of creation, according to the Vedas, yes? What are the other co-causes?

Actually, according to Veda God is the sole cause. Actually, according to Veda, God is the only thing that exists.

In your opinion, what might be another cause of existence? Or why would there need to be a co-cause?

 

[Madhuri]

She tends to copy my answers before I give them.

And have the nerve to put them so eloquently that I must quote it from HER.

I get told that all the time

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Greetings all:

Do you believe that God is the sole and only cause of creation?

If yes, why did not creation happen 5 minutes earlier than when it actually did?

In other words, what are the necessary and sufficient conditions needed for creation? If these conditions were always available, why did NOT creation happen at some other time than when it actually did?

Thus, there are multiple causes of creation.

Thoughts?

Before creation, neither Time, Matter nor Space existed.
You can not give any meaningful expression to a "Before" creation.

Nor can you give expression to God in terms of Time, matter or space.

When we talk about God's creation of this universe, we do not attribute any mechanism as to "how", "when", "Where" or "from what".
Until "after" creation such expressions are meaningless.

 

[robo]

God, whatever that might, must be first cause. From there, the clockwork universe rolls along according to nature, or God's law's if you like. Anything that pops in and out of existence within those laws must do so according to them. So in answer to your question I suppose God is the sole cause of creation, but is also unknowable to us at our current level of development. I haven't much of an idea what I'm talking about but thats as good an answer as any isn't it?

See, there is a problem here.

A cause has to temporally precede the effect. So, if clockwork starts with the creation of the universe but not before, nothing could have caused the universe.

 

[robo]

Before creation, neither Time, Matter nor Space existed.

Well, if this is true, nothing can cause creation, for a cause has to temporally precede the effect.

You can not give any meaningful expression to a "Before" creation.

Within your axiomatic framework, may be.

But there could just have been an infinite regress of time.

Nor can you give expression to God in terms of Time, matter or space.

Ok. Then please explain what it means to say "God is eternal"?

My definition of eternality is "Something is eternal if there was no point in time when it was non-existent."

Until "after" creation such expressions are meaningless.

If time began with the creation of the universe, there was no point in time when the universe was not.

Thus, the universe is eternal.

 

[McBell]

Are you sure you want to stick with this analogy? Because if you do, it is going to be a defeater for Christianity. Here's why.

Picasso didnt start his Blue Period 100 years before when he actually did because he didnt exist 100 years before when he actually did!

It is interesting that you decided to choose a time that made your reply a "no brainer".

now how about you actually address the question with a meaningful answer?

 

[robo]

It is interesting that you decided to choose a time that made your reply a "no brainer".

now how about you actually address the question with a meaningful answer?

What is the question? In post #3, [to which I was reponding to], Adso posed no question to me at all.

 

[McBell]

What is the question? In post #3, [to which I was reponding to], Adso posed no question to me at all.

I see you are not interested in honest discourse.
Though I suspected that was the case with your sad attempt to dismiss the point in question.

Carry on, perhaps there will be others willing to entertain themselves at your expense.

 

[robo]

I see you are not interested in honest discourse.
Though I suspected that was the case with your sad attempt to dismiss the point in question.

Carry on, perhaps there will be others willing to entertain themselves at your expense.

Honestly, what exactly is the point I am skipping over?

Is it the difference between 5 minutes and 100 years?

If that is indeed the point you accuse me of running roughshod over, let me point out that 5 minutes was simply a time period I pulled out thin air.

The question can still be - Why did not God create the universe 100 billion years earlier than when he actually did.

 

[McBell]

Honestly, what exactly is the point I am skipping over?

Is it the difference between 5 minutes and 100 years?

If that is indeed the point you accuse me of running roughshod over, let me point out that 5 minutes was simply a time period I pulled out thin air.

The question can still be - Why did not God create the universe 100 billion years earlier than when he actually did.

For the same reason that Picasso didn't start his Blue Period 5 minutes earlier.

Next question please.