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God is only one

blü 2

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
firedragon said:
Oh yes. Its taught as a duty. But you missed the whole sentence and stuck with a word.
Click to expand...
And it involves no objective analysis, no assessment of whether a good job is being done (as Shi'ites and Sunnis take to killing each other), just a prescribed thank-you, no?

We seem to be agreed on the 'uncritical' part of worship.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
blü 2 said:
And it involves no objective analysis, no assessment of whether a good job is being done (as Shi'ites and Sunnis take to killing each other), just a prescribed thank-you, no?

We seem to be agreed on the 'uncritical' part of worship.
Click to expand...

Thats a red herring for no reason. Maybe you have a reason but its not a relevant reason.

Before you try to refute something or insult someones religion or belief or take any stance like that, first try to understand. Maybe if you understand their theology better, you can construct better criticisms.
 
blü 2

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
firedragon said:
Thats a red herring for no reason. Maybe you have a reason but its not a relevant reason.

Before you try to refute something or insult someones religion or belief or take any stance like that, first try to understand. Maybe if you understand their theology better, you can construct better criticisms.
Click to expand...
We're talking about the meaning of 'worship'.

As I said, 'worship' is uncritical and not only uncritical, but criticism is forbidden.

As for veneration instead of adulation, the difference is too small to matter in context. Call it either, but it has very high emotional content and very low rational content.
 
Evangelicalhumanist

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
firedragon said:
No. The proponents burden.
Click to expand...
The Graveyard of Dead Gods
By H. L Mencken

Where is the graveyard of dead gods? What lingering mourner waters their mounds? There was a time when Jupiter was the king of the gods, and any man who doubted his puissance was ipso facto a barbarian and an ignoramus. But where in all the world is there a man who worships Jupiter today? And who of Huitzilopochtli? In one year - and it is no more than five hundred years ago - 50,000 youths and maidens were slain in sacrifice to him. Today, if he is remembered at all, it is only by some vagrant savage in the depths of the Mexican forest. Huitzilopochtli, like many other gods, had no human father; his mother was a virtuous widow; he was born of an apparently innocent flirtation that she carried out with the sun. When he frowned, his father, the sun, stood still. When he roared with rage, earthquakes engulfed whole cities. When he thirsted he was watered with 10,000 gallons of human blood.

But today Huitzilopochtli is as magnificently forgotten as Allen G. Thurman. Once the peer of Allah, Buddha and Wotan, he is now the peer of Richmond P. Hobson, Alton B. Parker, Adelina Patti, General Weyler and Tom Sharkey.

Speaking of Huitzilopochtli recalls his brother Tezcatilpoca. Tezcatilpoca was almost as powerful; he consumed 25,000 virgins a year.

Lead me to his tomb: I would weep, and hang a couronne des perles. But who knows where it is? Or where the grave of Quitzalcoatl is? Or Xiehtecuthli? Or Centeotl, that sweet one? Or Tlazolteotl, the goddess of love? Of Mictlan? Or Xipe? Or all the host of Tzitzimitles? Where are their bones?

Where is the willow on which they hung their harps? In what forlorn and unheard-of Hell do they await their resurrection morn? Who enjoys their residuary estates? Or that of Dis, whom Caesar found to be the chief god of the Celts? Of that of Tarves, the bull? Or that of Moccos, the pig? Or that of Epona, the mare? Or that of Mullo, the celestial *******? There was a time when the Irish revered all these gods, but today even the drunkest Irishman laughs at them.

But they have company in oblivion: the Hell of dead gods is as crowded as the Presbyterian Hell for babies. Damona is there, and Esus, and Drunemeton, and Silvana, and Dervones, and Adsalluta, and Deva, and Belisima, and Uxellimus, and Borvo, and Grannos, and Mogons. All mighty gods in their day, worshipped by millions, full of demands and impositions, able to bind and loose - all gods of the first class. Men labored for generations to build vast temples to them - temples with stones as large as hay-wagons.

The business of interpreting their whims occupied thousands of priests, bishops, archbishops. To doubt them was to die, usually at the stake.

Armies took to the field to defend them against infidels; villages were burned, women and children butchered, cattle were driven off. Yet in the end they all withered and died, and today there is none so poor to do them reverence.

What has become of Sutekh, once the high god of the whole Nile Valley?

What has become of:
Resheph Baal
Anath Astarte
Ashtoreth Hadad
Nebo Dagon
Melek Yau
Ahijah Amon-Re
Isis Osiris
Ptah Molech?

All there were gods of the highest eminence. Many of them are mentioned with fear and trembling in the Old Testament. They ranked, five or six thousand years ago, with Yahweh Himself; the worst of them stood far higher than Thor. Yet they have all gone down the chute, and with them the following:

Arianrod Nuada Argetlam
Morrigu Tagd
Govannon Goibniu
Gunfled Odin
Dagda Ogma
Ogryvan Marzin
Dea Dia Mara
Iuno Lucina Diana of Ephesus
Saturn Robigus
Furrina Pluto
Cronos Vesta
Engurra Zer-panitu
Belus Merodach
Ubilulu Elum
U-dimmer-an-kia Marduk
U-sab-sib Nin
U-Mersi Persephone
Tammuz Istar
Venus Lagas
Beltis Nirig
Nusku En-Mersi
Aa Assur
Sin Beltu
Apsu Kuski-banda
Elali Nin-azu
Mami Qarradu
Zaraqu Ueras
Zagaga

Ask the rector to lend you any good book on comparative religion; you will find them all listed. They were gods of the highest dignity - gods of civilized peoples - worshipped and believed in by millions.

All were omnipotent, omniscient and immortal.

And all are dead!
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Evangelicalhumanist said:
The Graveyard of Dead Gods
By H. L Mencken

Where is the graveyard of dead gods? What lingering mourner waters their mounds? There was a time when Jupiter was the king of the gods, and any man who doubted his puissance was ipso facto a barbarian and an ignoramus. But where in all the world is there a man who worships Jupiter today? And who of Huitzilopochtli? In one year - and it is no more than five hundred years ago - 50,000 youths and maidens were slain in sacrifice to him. Today, if he is remembered at all, it is only by some vagrant savage in the depths of the Mexican forest. Huitzilopochtli, like many other gods, had no human father; his mother was a virtuous widow; he was born of an apparently innocent flirtation that she carried out with the sun. When he frowned, his father, the sun, stood still. When he roared with rage, earthquakes engulfed whole cities. When he thirsted he was watered with 10,000 gallons of human blood.

But today Huitzilopochtli is as magnificently forgotten as Allen G. Thurman. Once the peer of Allah, Buddha and Wotan, he is now the peer of Richmond P. Hobson, Alton B. Parker, Adelina Patti, General Weyler and Tom Sharkey.

Speaking of Huitzilopochtli recalls his brother Tezcatilpoca. Tezcatilpoca was almost as powerful; he consumed 25,000 virgins a year.

Lead me to his tomb: I would weep, and hang a couronne des perles. But who knows where it is? Or where the grave of Quitzalcoatl is? Or Xiehtecuthli? Or Centeotl, that sweet one? Or Tlazolteotl, the goddess of love? Of Mictlan? Or Xipe? Or all the host of Tzitzimitles? Where are their bones?

Where is the willow on which they hung their harps? In what forlorn and unheard-of Hell do they await their resurrection morn? Who enjoys their residuary estates? Or that of Dis, whom Caesar found to be the chief god of the Celts? Of that of Tarves, the bull? Or that of Moccos, the pig? Or that of Epona, the mare? Or that of Mullo, the celestial *******? There was a time when the Irish revered all these gods, but today even the drunkest Irishman laughs at them.

But they have company in oblivion: the Hell of dead gods is as crowded as the Presbyterian Hell for babies. Damona is there, and Esus, and Drunemeton, and Silvana, and Dervones, and Adsalluta, and Deva, and Belisima, and Uxellimus, and Borvo, and Grannos, and Mogons. All mighty gods in their day, worshipped by millions, full of demands and impositions, able to bind and loose - all gods of the first class. Men labored for generations to build vast temples to them - temples with stones as large as hay-wagons.

The business of interpreting their whims occupied thousands of priests, bishops, archbishops. To doubt them was to die, usually at the stake.

Armies took to the field to defend them against infidels; villages were burned, women and children butchered, cattle were driven off. Yet in the end they all withered and died, and today there is none so poor to do them reverence.

What has become of Sutekh, once the high god of the whole Nile Valley?

What has become of:
Resheph Baal
Anath Astarte
Ashtoreth Hadad
Nebo Dagon
Melek Yau
Ahijah Amon-Re
Isis Osiris
Ptah Molech?

All there were gods of the highest eminence. Many of them are mentioned with fear and trembling in the Old Testament. They ranked, five or six thousand years ago, with Yahweh Himself; the worst of them stood far higher than Thor. Yet they have all gone down the chute, and with them the following:

Arianrod Nuada Argetlam
Morrigu Tagd
Govannon Goibniu
Gunfled Odin
Dagda Ogma
Ogryvan Marzin
Dea Dia Mara
Iuno Lucina Diana of Ephesus
Saturn Robigus
Furrina Pluto
Cronos Vesta
Engurra Zer-panitu
Belus Merodach
Ubilulu Elum
U-dimmer-an-kia Marduk
U-sab-sib Nin
U-Mersi Persephone
Tammuz Istar
Venus Lagas
Beltis Nirig
Nusku En-Mersi
Aa Assur
Sin Beltu
Apsu Kuski-banda
Elali Nin-azu
Mami Qarradu
Zaraqu Ueras
Zagaga

Ask the rector to lend you any good book on comparative religion; you will find them all listed. They were gods of the highest dignity - gods of civilized peoples - worshipped and believed in by millions.

All were omnipotent, omniscient and immortal.

And all are dead!
Click to expand...

3000 gods, what are their descriptions, what is the analysis.

Thats the question. Thanks for your attempt of saving your fellow so religiously. But its a failure. 3000 Gods, what are their descriptions, what is the analysis?

Thanks for your attempt.
 
Evangelicalhumanist

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
firedragon said:
3000 gods, what are their descriptions, what is the analysis.

Thats the question. Thanks for your attempt of saving your fellow so religiously. But its a failure. 3000 Gods, what are their descriptions, what is the analysis?

Thanks for your attempt.
Click to expand...
I'm not here to be your typist or researcher, nor even to dispel your apparent ignorance of the history of human beliefs.

Nor, by the way, to be dismissed so cavalierly. Good-bye.
 
C

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Meandflower said:
God is only one. God wants us to only worship him because it was God who created us. This i believe.

Do you agree or disagree?
Click to expand...

God said that He was God, and only He was God, and there will be no other.

Jesus was the son of God, and rightfully is called Lord (but he is not God).

Jesus, however, was right about being part of God. But aren't we all (we all have souls).

I think that God is not one entity, but is a collection of trillions of souls. God puts one soul (part of himself), in each one of us. In humans because only humans have the intelligence to make good decisions. Souls control human actions to a great extent. Bad souls go to hell and good souls rejoin God in heaven.

Sometimes human needs overwhelm the control of souls (hunger, sex, greed, etc). That is why we need a bible for guidance. We know that such temptations abound, but we have to control ourselves, and only the good will go to heaven.

This whole business with souls appears to be a purification of God.

Many believe that God is perfect and not at all evil. Yet, even God does bad things (flooded the earth during Noah's time, killing many good people and innocent kids).
 
C

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Shadow Wolf said:
Jehovah has a funny way of not showing himself and not doing anything about all the heinous acts done in his name if he wants us to worship him. If he cares about me and wants me to worship him, where was he was I was being spiritually abused and tormented in his House? Why was I given nightmares of going to Hell instead of receiving the love I needed? If he wants us to worship him, why did I turn further to church hurting only to leave it hurting more?
Click to expand...

Some say that earth is a testing ground for faith. Apparently we all have to suffer (including suffering while dying).

I wonder if God forced Jesus to die on a cross (which God could easily have prevented) in order to teach Jesus what suffering is, so that he could understand what humans are going through. Sometimes they have anguish that God doesn't love them. Imagine Jesus, as he asked God "why hath thou forsaken me?" how abandoned he felt.

You'd think that a loving God wouldn't put us through all of this.

Yet, maybe only the truly faithful can get into heaven, and the only test of faith is suffering?
 
C

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Nakosis said:
I think this is what bugs me. People claiming to know what God wants. I'm not saying there is a God or isn't one, just these claims of possessing special knowledge about God. So much for humility.

These claims about God end up making God sound as psycho as the rest of us.
Click to expand...

If we don't know what God wants, how can we do what God wants us to do?

We must strive to know God (though our intelligence is limited, and it is difficult to understand decisions without seeing future outcomes as God does).
 
C

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Evangelicalhumanist said:
This brings up an interesting question:

Is a psychosomatic "benefit" really a benefit?

(Warning: we're heading into "God as a placebo" argument.
Click to expand...
Maybe a double blind study. One group is not given access to God, and the other group can pray to God and get no help and no response.

Somehow the two groups react similarly.
 
C

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
DNB said:
Those that do are adhering to and espousing, a heretical and blasphemous doctrine.
God is one, and can only be one in order to be perfect and complete. There is no redundancy, division nor confusion within the singularly pure Godhead.
Click to expand...

I believe that many parts of the bible insist that Jesus is not God. Yet, Catholics read the same bible and believe in the trinity.

Maybe we should attend each other's churches to gain a mutual understanding?
 
C

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
firedragon said:
Thats a red herring for no reason. Maybe you have a reason but its not a relevant reason.

Before you try to refute something or insult someones religion or belief or take any stance like that, first try to understand. Maybe if you understand their theology better, you can construct better criticisms.
Click to expand...

Jesus fed the masses with a few loaves and some red herring.
 
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