God is simple, not complex

[outhouse]

"According to the classical metaphysical traditions of both the East and West, God is the unconditioned cause of reality – of absolutely everything that is – from the beginning to the end of time.

The problem here is

Your lumping all traditions that exist to redefine the concept as a whole. You don't get to do that.

 

[Reflex]

I have expressed myself clearly and never simply dismissed another's viewpoint.

As to perennial philosophy, none of your axioms are demonstrable, so you are only able to reasonably debate with other perennial philosophers. (Kind of like Islamists being able to agree on the Koran and debate minutia within it).

My point exactly. Saying, in effect, "Prove it," is not a rebuttal.

 

[outhouse]

Outhouse, I think that when believers claim that atheists "don't have a complete system" or "metaphysical position" it's because atheists don't feel compelled to explain why we are here or why there is existence. They seem to find fault with the honest reply of "we don't know" why we are here, why existence, etc.

They simply know they have NOTHING to support their position.

We see them tap dancing around the lack of evidence, and its not humorous, its rather sad for me to see.

My goal is to promote the advancement of humanity, to advance knowledge, and I see so many trying to put up road blocks to knowledge, saying we have to keep making ancient mens mistakes of jumping over imaginative mythological hurdles.

 

[outhouse]

My point exactly. Saying, in effect, "Prove it," is not a rebuttal.

Typical for many theist to place the argument in a safety net that does not exist.

 

[outhouse]

According to the classical metaphysical traditions of both the East and West, God is the unconditioned cause of reality

Do you understand what moving goal post actually is?


Your taking the definition of gods, and making another god from all gods you can argue about.

Sir gods have names like Yahweh, El, Baal and Asherah, Zues. You do not get to lump them all together and debate the lump

 

[outhouse]

Agreed. Most skeptics (as well as most believers) are theologically ignorant.

This is true.

 

[outhouse]

That atheists like yourself require God to be scientifically validated is proof-positive that they just don't get it.

That could only be substantiated as credible, if your god existed outside mythology. To date that has never been proven.

What has been proven however, is that man makes gods, and we have a complete track record of man doing just that. Your god concept as "classical" you admit to, is a classroom made definition by ancient philosophers. Not something someone actually worshipped.

 

[outhouse]

If God interacts with the world, we should see the effects of His actions in the world, which would make them measurable.

Agreed.

And to date nothing at all can be measured. Outside of imagination and mythology, and the conscious mind, nothing exist that can be measured.

No god exist outside a "concept" scientifically and academically at this time.

 

[outhouse]

No.

Even this simple "no" means you wish to define the concept yourself with no evidence either way.


So I would ask, what evidence are you basing your decision to state that god is not the universe????????? please explain yourself

 

[outhouse]

human beings are capable not merely of knowing about the Divine ground by inference;

Which is factually false.

Every divine concept ever recorded is a man made creation.

A literary faith, and nothing more then faith

Perennial Philosophy

Is a display of ancient mens ignorance, trying to explain mythological concepts they were not educated in.

This comes from a time when most all people lived mythology, and their world existed in mythology

 

[muhammad_isa]

..I think that when believers claim that atheists "don't have a complete system" or "metaphysical position" it's because atheists don't feel compelled to explain why we are here or why there is existence..

Yes .. I wonder why that is?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

"Find a new term"? What's new about something that's been around a millennia?

It's taken.

 

[outhouse]

Yes .. I wonder why that is?

There is existence because this planet is in the right location for life to form and evolve.

A singularity expanded, and guess what singularities, are very common in the universe.

 

[prometheus11]

My point exactly. Saying, in effect, "Prove it," is not a rebuttal.

Of course not. Why would anyone think so?

 

[prometheus11]

Yes .. I wonder why that is?

I don't know. Perhaps some people prefer any answer to admitting that we don't know?

 

[prometheus11]

They simply know they have NOTHING to support their position.

We see them tap dancing around the lack of evidence, and its not humorous, its rather sad for me to see.

My goal is to promote the advancement of humanity, to advance knowledge, and I see so many trying to put up road blocks to knowledge, saying we have to keep making ancient mens mistakes of jumping over imaginative mythological hurdles.

Indeed, that's my motivation as well. No disagreement here.

 

[outhouse]

Lets get one thing straight. When anyone says there is nothing in nature that any god can be attributed to, at any time, there is a CREDIBLE reason. Mythology does not effect nature.

So lets ask our theist brothers and friends, if god exist in your mind, what does he do outside of your conscious mind???????????

We don't have to defend atheism, atheist for the first time in human history, due to freedom society has now given us the ability to break the mythological chains of ancient men, and go on the offensive.

And its easy pickins. Men only believe what they do about mythology based on the location they were born, generally speaking.

 

[muhammad_isa]

There is existence because this planet is in the right location for life to form and evolve..

Yes, we are aware of that .. but that doesn't answer the question why..
Why are we consious of our existence? Why do we have to be alive? Why do we experience pleasure and pain? Why do we have to take responsibility etc.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I don't know. Perhaps some people prefer any answer to admitting that we don't know?

No .. that wouldn't be it .. "I don't know" doesn't have any answers at all. Atheists do not LIKE the answer that Almighty God is responsible, whether evidence exists or not, imo.

 

[outhouse]

Why are we consious of our existence?

Because our brains evolved that way, it is a survival instinct that makes us aware of possible predators that may be laying in wait for us. We have to be able to imagine the predator there to survive them.

Why do we have to be alive?

You don't.

It is sheer luck most are.

In the past life was not something that had a long shelf life.

Why do we experience pleasure and pain?

Conscious mind that evolved to this status. Pain is required for man to keep his body alive.

Why do we have to take responsibility etc.

You don't. That is a choice