A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
'Tis but a small annoyance, the shouts of a fool.
A garden snake. Unfortunately, it speaks.
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God/Jesus sinned. Genocide is a sin of high order.
- Thread starter Greatest I am
- Start date
'Tis but a small annoyance, the shouts of a fool.
A garden snake. Unfortunately, it speaks.
ayani
member
DL,
genocide is a remarkably modern term. yes, we have laws against it. good thing we do. but God, being God, is not bound by human laws, in part because where as our judgement, guesswork at what is right and wrong, etc. is flawed and limited, His is not.
here is what the Bible says about the state of things leading up to the flood:
The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. (Genesis 6:5) Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight and was full of violence. God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. (Genesis 6:11-12)
note how the Bible says that God *saw* the evil and wickedness in the hearts of men. could Noah see this and weigh the gravity of the situation to the entent that God could? no. what is noteworthy here is what God saw of His creation, specifically of the evil, violence, sin, and corruption of the peoples there. so, in response to this great, saturating, terrible evil, God decides to whipe it out, and begin again from the seed of a righteous, Godly, just, and blameless man, Noah.
you see, we can not know, see, weigh, judge, or comprehed things as God can. we are not Him. we are made in His image and share some of His qualities, yet we are not holy, righteous, just, and sovereign in the ways that God is. to give and take away is God's call, as He is the Master of the Universe. Biblically, it is not our call to attempt to question His plan for His universe, or set our own opinions against His will.
genocide is a remarkably modern term. yes, we have laws against it. good thing we do. but God, being God, is not bound by human laws, in part because where as our judgement, guesswork at what is right and wrong, etc. is flawed and limited, His is not.
here is what the Bible says about the state of things leading up to the flood:
The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. (Genesis 6:5) Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight and was full of violence. God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. (Genesis 6:11-12)
note how the Bible says that God *saw* the evil and wickedness in the hearts of men. could Noah see this and weigh the gravity of the situation to the entent that God could? no. what is noteworthy here is what God saw of His creation, specifically of the evil, violence, sin, and corruption of the peoples there. so, in response to this great, saturating, terrible evil, God decides to whipe it out, and begin again from the seed of a righteous, Godly, just, and blameless man, Noah.
you see, we can not know, see, weigh, judge, or comprehed things as God can. we are not Him. we are made in His image and share some of His qualities, yet we are not holy, righteous, just, and sovereign in the ways that God is. to give and take away is God's call, as He is the Master of the Universe. Biblically, it is not our call to attempt to question His plan for His universe, or set our own opinions against His will.
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ayani
member
What's more, God loves all. Destroying the Canaanite culture would have been a mercy, even to the Canaanites. Scripture picks out child sacrifice as a specific motive for God's action, but it would seem that they must have been pretty bad to motivate an action that has its parallel only in the Great Deluge. Living in such a society must have been a terror. And so wiping it out was an act of mercy to generations of future people who would come to live in that area, and spared the present people from having to continue under its yoke.
just wanted to highlight this from Dune's post. beautifully said, Dune, frubals.
just wanted to highlight this from Dune's post. beautifully said, Dune, frubals.
Greatest I am
Well-Known Member
If I see any I will let you know.
I tend to only hate those that kill humans. If Jesus/God did then he can get in line.
Jews do not follow Hitler and I would not follow a Jesus/God that was of the same.
Regards
DL
Greatest I am
Well-Known Member
Though shall not kill is a law that God gave us.
Does the law maker not have to follow his own laws?
If he does not then why would we trust that they are good laws if even he cannot keep them?
Regards
DL
ayani
member
yet Jews *do* follow, trust, believe in, and worship Yahweh, the very same Creator from the Biblical narrative you and i are discussing. the very same God of the heavens and the earth who sent the flood, destroyed the Canaanites, caused the Hebrews to be lead into captivity because of their sin, and who will send Messiah to establish justice and righteousness on earth.
now, Jews are still waiting for Messiah. i believe He has already come and will come again- Yeshua of Nazareth. to establish righteousness and justice means, neccesarily, getting rid of evrything / everyone who is unrighteous and unjust. a sifting will happen. that is Biblical. it is Judaic, and Judeo-Christian.
Jews do not follow Hitler, but they do worship and love the Lord their God, who has chosen from time to time to stretch out His hand of judgement upon nations, and whose will and plan they believe to be the final word, and ultimately good.
Greatest I am
Well-Known Member
Only a fool would consider genocide to be mercy.
Only a fool would believe that it is good to kill humans.
Regards
DL
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Do you want a cookie?
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
This kind of unqualified statement demonstrates your comprehensive lack of thought.
So the soldiers, generals, and Presidents who fought against Hitler's troops - who supported the killing of humans - are fools?
Eat your cookie, wallowing in the dilusion that your beliefs have solved anything, and stop embarrassing yourself.
Greatest I am
Well-Known Member
ayani
member
DL ~
these are laws He has gven us- not laws he has put binding on Himself. humans are not God, nor is He compelled to live by the standards that He gives to us, not being human, and being Himself the law-giver to humanity. for example, a mother can tell her eleven year old daughter "don't go out of the house with that make-up on!" does that mean the mother can't wear make-up? what God knows is good for His children does not mean that He is somehow cosmically bound from executing His will in ways that He would reserve for Himself, and not permit His human children to carry out on their own. either because it's not possible for them, or not in His plan.
what God describes as forbidden is homicide-what Cain did to his brother Abel. God's using nations to punish / humble other nations is not the same thing as one man killing another man for his sheep / wife (a violation of the commandments to neither kill, nor covet).
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A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Greatest I am
Well-Known Member
Since when are law makers exempt from their laws.
Do as I say but not as I do is poor policy.
Regards
DL
Greatest I am
Well-Known Member
But you have hands.
Is there a difference between genocide and killing?
The dictionary will tell you that answer.
Regards
DL
Or what God commanded Abraham to do to Isaac?
Or what God did to the son of David and Bathsheba?
I fail to see how the firstborn infant sons of Egyptian slaves would have committed an offense that would justify a death sentence as described in Exodus.
One is a form of the other. A genocide is made up of many individual killings.But you have hands.
Is there a difference between genocide and killing?
ayani
member
Greatest, you seem to totally miss who we're talking about.
God is not a person or a man. God is not a policeman, a judge, a lawyer, or a politician. to judge God by human standards is simply not how are are to try and understand / judge God's doings.
here is what the Bible says, again, on these issues :
God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill? (Numbers 23:19)
to continue to argue with such froth on this issue is pretty fruitless. the Bible says certan things about God, and makes it clear that God is not bound by human law, that He can and does do things we can't, and that His will and plan are perfect. to deny and rail against those claims and then attack Biblical narrative from the p.o.v. that God is like us and accountable as we would hold a cop, lawyer, or president accountable for following his own rules, misses the point.
if you can not or do not believe that God could / would stretch out His (metaphorical) hand to judge, destroy, and take life, then why even presume that the Bible and yourself are talking about the same God? because God as you imagine Him seems devoid / zapped of many of the qualities the Bible describes Him as having, and the Bible is believed, by Christians, to accurately describe God's deaings throughout history with us men.
God is not a person or a man. God is not a policeman, a judge, a lawyer, or a politician. to judge God by human standards is simply not how are are to try and understand / judge God's doings.
here is what the Bible says, again, on these issues :
God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill? (Numbers 23:19)
to continue to argue with such froth on this issue is pretty fruitless. the Bible says certan things about God, and makes it clear that God is not bound by human law, that He can and does do things we can't, and that His will and plan are perfect. to deny and rail against those claims and then attack Biblical narrative from the p.o.v. that God is like us and accountable as we would hold a cop, lawyer, or president accountable for following his own rules, misses the point.
if you can not or do not believe that God could / would stretch out His (metaphorical) hand to judge, destroy, and take life, then why even presume that the Bible and yourself are talking about the same God? because God as you imagine Him seems devoid / zapped of many of the qualities the Bible describes Him as having, and the Bible is believed, by Christians, to accurately describe God's deaings throughout history with us men.
ayani
member
you make my point exactly. we often read Biblical narratives and say "what the heck..." God's reasoning, will, and motivations are not are own.
God sometimes calls us to do things which make little sense to us. or He wills something for our lives that is painful, and confusing. my goodness, look at Jesus' own life. yet in Christ we see the ultimate example of a self-less, personal love for God and for God's will. that is the kind of devoted, patient, faithful, and Christ-like love for a God we call Father which we seek to emulate. it makes little sense to the world and is often difficult for Christians to understand too. but then, God's ways are not our own, and the wisdom of His Son's cross is foolishness to those who do not know Him.
Greatest I am
Well-Known Member
We live in a natural world among other animals.
The God of ants is an ant.
The God of lions is a lion.
The God of Gods is a God.
The God of men should be a man.
You are right when you say that god is not a man. That being the case, he should keep his nose out of our laws if he is exempt from them.
You say his rules for us do not apply to him, why then should we follow rules that he so easily breaks.
Would you trust those that say do as I say and not as I do?
Why would he kill those he -loves-.
Regards
DL
