God & Lies

[Quintessence]

Any question that is about God(s) is always unavoidably vague.

While I see where you're coming from here, this sounds like an excuse to me. Vagueness in theological discussions is not unavoidable, it's a choice. You have chosen not to lay out a more exacting framework from which we can meaningfully answer this question.

At the very least, it would be nice to operationally define "healthy relationship" and "god."

 

[McBell]

Truth does not bend to the way you see it.

If this statement is true then you should have no problems in telling us which is the truth and which is not the truth:

The Bee Gees are an amazing singing group.
The Bee Gees are awful.

​

 

[Jeremiah]

If this statement is true then you should have no problems in telling us which is the truth and which is not the truth:

The Bee Gees are an amazing singing group.
The Bee Gees are awful.

​

I already answered that question.

 

[McBell]

I already answered that question.

Not in this thread you didn't.

You avoided answering the question, but you have not actually addressed which of the two statements is the truth and which one is not the truth.

 

[Jeremiah]

Not in this thread you didn't.

You avoided answering the question, but you have not actually addressed which of the two statements is the truth and which one is not the truth.

"Not in this thread you didn't."

O yes I did.

 

[McBell]

"Not in this thread you didn't."

O yes I did.

prove it.

 

[Jeremiah]

prove it.

Say please. :flirt:

 

[Jeremiah]

<delete>

Moo

 

[Jeremiah]

While I see where you're coming from here, this sounds like an excuse to me. Vagueness in theological discussions is not unavoidable, it's a choice. You have chosen not to lay out a more exacting framework from which we can meaningfully answer this question.

At the very least, it would be nice to operationally define "healthy relationship" and "god."

Feel free to fill in the blanks.

 

[Thief]

And that is what God allows......we fill in the blanks.

As when Moses wanted to know about Man....how are we made?

"I made you from dust"

That is not a lie.
But most people knee jerk to a miracle scenario.
Presto....changeo.....Man......Adam.....then Eve.....

Nothing could be further from the truth.

But God did not lie.
You just have to read more carefully.

 

[sojourner]

"Since truth can be subjective, then a lie to one person would not be regarded as a lie to someone else in a lot of cases. "

Since when is truth subjective?

Sine when is truth not subjective? "Truth" and "fact" are not synonymous. Truth is more in the realm of meaning and interpretation.

 

[sojourner]

Different taste in music is simply based on the fact that you are two different people and because of your differences you have a different reaction to certain stimulus. This does not prove that truth is subjective.

The truth is neither you nor your mother can walk through a brick wall on your own powers. And no amount of wishing that truth is subjective will change that truth.

Mk... that would be a fact. There may be truth within that fact, but the fact does not constitute the truth.

 

[sojourner]

Truth does not bend to the way you see it.

Yes it does. Facts, however, do not.

 

[sojourner]

While I see where you're coming from here, this sounds like an excuse to me. Vagueness in theological discussions is not unavoidable, it's a choice. You have chosen not to lay out a more exacting framework from which we can meaningfully answer this question.

At the very least, it would be nice to operationally define "healthy relationship" and "god."

Vagueness is a bad quality in theology. Theology need not be "vague." theology can (and should) be quite specific.

 

[LovingChild]

Can one have a healthy relationship with God if that relationship is founded on lies?

Dear Jeremiah,
I would like to let the bible answer your question directly:

"... and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying (!), shall ever come into it [the holy city, New Jerusalem], but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life." (Rev.21:27)

"Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying (!)." (Rev.22:15)

Love, LovingChild

 

[Jeremiah]

Yes it does. Facts, however, do not.

Actually you seem to have it backwards.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Can one have a healthy relationship with God if that relationship is founded on lies?

Sure, why not.

 

[sojourner]

Actually you seem to have it backwards.

The earth is 92,960,000 miles from the sun. That is a fact, and it does not bend to the way I see it. A mile is a standard distance.

To say that "the sun is far from the earth" is a true statement, but only to the extent that the meaning of the word "far" agrees with the fact of 96,960,000. It would be just as true to say that "the sun is close to the earth," if a different perspective is taken and the meaning of the word "far" changes -- or "bends," as you say -- to the perception of the fact. In earth perception, 96,960,000 miles is "far." In cosmic perception, however, 96,960,000 miles is a drop in the bucket, and is not far at all. Therefore, while the fact remains that the earth is 96,960,000 miles from the sun, the truth of the earth's proximity changes with the perception of just what constitutes "far."

 

[LovingChild]

Sure, why not.

Not, because God told us so!

 

[Jeremiah]

The earth is 92,960,000 miles from the sun. That is a fact, and it does not bend to the way I see it. A mile is a standard distance.

To say that "the sun is far from the earth" is a true statement, but only to the extent that the meaning of the word "far" agrees with the fact of 96,960,000. It would be just as true to say that "the sun is close to the earth," if a different perspective is taken and the meaning of the word "far" changes -- or "bends," as you say -- to the perception of the fact. In earth perception, 96,960,000 miles is "far." In cosmic perception, however, 96,960,000 miles is a drop in the bucket, and is not far at all. Therefore, while the fact remains that the earth is 96,960,000 miles from the sun, the truth of the earth's proximity changes with the perception of just what constitutes "far."

Facts are an "observation that has been repeatedly confirmed and accepted as true". They are based on our perception and understanding of the truth.

In fact established facts can even be proven wrong as we learn and perceive more of existence. Truth however will remain true even if we don't understand it or don't perceive it.