God Questions......

[Self]

Hmmmm sounds kinda complicated but fun, I am a fan of introspection anyway but how do I dig deeper than the sum of my parts?

Only thoughts allow the complication to arise. there is nothing complicated about it. But, becasue one has been thinking for so long, it seems dificult.

You can dig deeper by asking "Who Am I?" First you will say, am i the senses? Well if i take away any of the senses I still am. Am I the body? If I take away my arm or leg, hair, Im still here. Im must not be my heart or lungs because they can be taken out of me and new ones can be put in. Therefore im not the body. Am i the Brain? The Brain is nothing more than a system of thoughts. And, your not the thought process. Ok, so your not the senses, body, brain, thought, mind. Then what are you, you are still there. Then you ask again am I consciousness. Then you become aware of your awareness (Self-Awareness) and then you absorb into that, that is realization!

 

[Beta]

And when you have realized what mess you are in then what ???
Sometimes we get into trouble over our heads and past self-help. There is not always someone there to pick up the pieces - except God.

 

[Self]

And when you have realized what mess you are in then what ???
Sometimes we get into trouble over our heads and past self-help. There is not always someone there to pick up the pieces - except God.

What mess are you talking about?

 

[Beta]

What mess are you talking about?

In your reply to BS you seemed to recommend 'selfrealization'.
From BS's posts I gather he is not a happy bunny, in fact they move me to tears. How would selfrealization help him ?

 

[Self]

In your reply to BS you seemed to recommend 'selfrealization'.
From BS's posts I gather he is not a happy bunny, in fact they move me to tears. How would selfrealization help him ?

Self-Realization is the ultimate freedom. Everyone is suffering. We all want to be happy because it is our real nature to be happy, but we seem to look for it in the wrong places. happiness cant be found outside, though it seems like that. Real happiness can only come from the inside. We also suffering because we are unlimited being, but we have limited ourselves to this body by identification. So Self-Realization takes away suffering, limits, and the Ego.

To find the Self is to find all that is.

 

[Beta]

To find the Self is to find all that is.

Yes, but if you don't like what you find then what ?
Do you think it is so easy for people to change when they have ingrained error ? Poor / bad habits can dog us for the rest of our life even while hating them. Never been there ???

 

[Quagmire]

How would selfrealization help him ?

Because all of our problems reside within ourselves, and the self is the only part of reality that we have any consistent control over.

Self-Realization is the ultimate freedom. Everyone is suffering. We all want to be happy because it is our real nature to be happy, but we seem to look for it in the wrong places. happiness cant be found outside, though it seems like that. Real happiness can only come from the inside. We also suffering because we are unlimited being, but we have limited ourselves to this body by identification. So Self-Realization takes away suffering, limits, and the Ego.

To find the Self is to find all that is.

We are each of us our own universe and each of us is the God of that universe. :yes:

Yes, but if you don't like what you find then what ?

Then congratulations: you found something to work on.

Do you think it is so easy for people to change when they have ingrained error ?

Nope, but it's impossible for us to change if we're in denial about these ingrained errors.

Poor / bad habits can dog us for the rest of our life even while hating them. Never been there ???

And most likely will if we don't face them.

 

[Beta]

Because all of our problems reside within ourselves, and the self is the only part of reality that we have any consistent control over.

We are each of us our own universe and each of us is the God of that universe. :yes:

Then congratulations: you found something to work on.

Nope, but it's impossible for us to change if we're in denial about these ingrained errors.

And most likely will if we don't face them.

Yes, I grant you have a point.
Humanly speaking we can struggle through life trying to correct ourselves. But when you have done that what will have been the point ? Where is the reward for all those denied pleasures and desires we so lust after ? We die - just as if we would have done while living in self-indulgence. The incentive or reason to go through a hell of change just would not be there without God's promise of reward at the end of it.
Fact is God gives us power to stick with change which otherwise we would soon abandon.

 

[berrychrisc]

happiness cant be found outside, though it seems like that. Real happiness can only come from the inside.
To find the Self is to find all that is.

Yes. As Jesus taught, "the Kingdom of Heaven is within you."

 

[Madhuri]

Yes, but if you don't like what you find then what ?
Do you think it is so easy for people to change when they have ingrained error ? Poor / bad habits can dog us for the rest of our life even while hating them. Never been there ???

Hi Beta, we believe that God is within. When we discover Self, we discover God. Peace can only be found when we become centred in our very being. There is nothing bad to be found there because we are all spiritual souls. The problems we face are associated with the body and material world, not the spirit or the spiritual world.

 

[Self]

Yes, but if you don't like what you find then what ?
Do you think it is so easy for people to change when they have ingrained error ? Poor / bad habits can dog us for the rest of our life even while hating them. Never been there ???

You dont understand. Its IMPOSSIBLE to not like the bliss and everending happiness of the Self.

 

[Quagmire]

Yes, I grant you have a point.
Humanly speaking we can struggle through life trying to correct ourselves. But when you have done that what will have been the point ?

According to my personal philosophy that is the point. Life is supposed to be a struggle. History and Nature teach us that. The choice we get is whether or not we're going to struggle for something worthwhile against whatever it is that's standing in our way or holding us back, or sit where we are and struggle against guilt, regret, despair, hopelessness....

Where is the reward for all those denied pleasures and desires we so lust after ?

If indulging in these pleasures and desires is robbing you of your peace of mind, and if over coming them (or even just trying to) helps you become the person you would like to be, that in itself is a huge reward.

It's the difference between living a life that's just an ordeal as opposed to one that plays out as an adventure.

We die - just as if we would have done while living in self-indulgence.

Even if we put the possibility of a life after this one aside for a moment, this just isn't true: If at the end of our lives we look back and all we see is damage in our wake, which is the usual scenario of a life based on self-indulgence, even from a completely narcissistic perspective that life was a failure. If we consider the other people involved, it was a tragedy.

The incentive or reason to go through a hell of change just would not be there without God's promise of reward at the end of it.

For one thing, positive change, while often painful, is always much less so than stagnation. And it's a completely different kind of pain: the first is the pain that inevitably comes with effort and experience, ie., growing pains. The latter is the pain of regret, despair, disease, and hopelessness.

"Abandon all hope yea who enter here". That's the true definition of hell.

Fact is God gives us power to stick with change which otherwise we would soon abandon.

Put in the context of the sentence that proceeded this one, it seems like you're saying that the hope of eternal life in some sort of Heaven is the only possible motivating factor for living a useful, moral, non-destructive life. That only works if all you care about is yourself, your own reward, and your own ultimate destiny.

Ironically, according to my own beliefs, anyone who's concern is limited to these things is already in hell (note: I'm not saying this is you, just pointing out the implications of what you're saying).

 

[Walkntune]

Put in the context of the sentence that proceeded this one, it seems like you're saying that the hope of eternal life in some sort of Heaven is the only possible motivating factor for living a useful, moral, non-destructive life. That only works if all you care about is yourself, your own reward, and your own ultimate destiny.

Ironically, according to my own beliefs, anyone who's concern is limited to these things is already in hell (note: I'm not saying this is you, just pointing out the implications of what you're saying).

There are many benefits for those who earnestly seek spiritual things.

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

You don't have to search very hard to find out there are many people who have obtained the ability to fulfil there lustful addictions and life styles have lived a life of misery and sorrow and committed suicide.
Cities are full of twelve step groups from people trying to find freedom from their own fleshly desires and misery.
Why should this be the case and how is anyone ever held in bondage to such things that are supposed to bring pleasure to life?
What is this law that people are in bondage to?

 

[Madhuri]

What is this law that people are in bondage to?

Maya.
Maya is illusion.
Illusion is a feature of the material universe.
Illusion blinds us to reality.
God is reality.
God is love.
Love is selfless.
Selflessness is the opposite of selfishness.
Selfish behaviour is the cause of all misery.

 

[Walkntune]

Maya.
Maya is illusion.
Illusion is a feature of the material universe.
Illusion blinds us to reality.
God is reality.
God is love.
Love is selfless.
Selflessness is the opposite of selfishness.
Selfish behaviour is the cause of all misery.

Yes. I am actually directing the question to some seeing in the natural for their view.

 

[Quagmire]

There are many benefits for those who earnestly seek spiritual things.

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

You don't have to search very hard to find out there are many people who have obtained the ability to fulfil there lustful addictions and life styles have lived a life of misery and sorrow and committed suicide.
Cities are full of twelve step groups from people trying to find freedom from their own fleshly desires and misery.
Why should this be the case and how is anyone ever held in bondage to such things that are supposed to bring pleasure to life?
What is this law that people are in bondage to?

In a word: instinct. Humankind has outgrown most of the natural checks and balances imposed upon our species by nature but we're still operating under the same instinctive urges and impulses our earliest ancestors were.

For instance: our species has an instinctive craving for fatty foods (for that matter we still have a natural tendency to eat as much of any food as we can just because it's there). This was a necessary survival mechanism to pre-agricultural humans who were constantly dealing with a cycle of plenty vs. scarcity. The craving for fat and the bodies tendency to store any unused carbs as fat was off-set by this natural cycle.

Now, at least in developed parts of the world, this cycle has been eliminated; most of us have access to as much as food as we want, anytime we want it.

But the old instincts still apply, hence the tendency and opportunity for self-indulgence. Now, it's up to us to monitor ourselves, in lue of the natural checks and balances. Ironically, at this point, this particular instinct which helped our species survive has actually turned into a threat to our individual survival.

This applies to just about any area of our lives: in spite of the fact that most of us have most of what we need most of the time our instincts are still telling us to get as much of everything as we can, often to our own detriment.

 

[Walkntune]

In a word: instinct. Humankind has outgrown most of the natural checks and balances imposed upon our species by nature but we're still operating under the same instinctive urges and impulses our earliest ancestors were.

For instance: our species has an instinctive craving for fatty foods (for that matter we still have a natural tendency to eat as much of any food as we can just because it's there). This was a necessary survival mechanism to pre-agricultural humans who were constantly dealing with a cycle of plenty vs. scarcity. The craving for fat and the bodies tendency to store any unused carbs as fat was off-set by this natural cycle.

Now, at least in developed parts of the world, this cycle has been eliminated; most of us have access to as much as food as we want, anytime we want it.

But the old instincts still apply, hence the tendency and opportunity for self-indulgence. Now, it's up to us to monitor ourselves, in lue of the natural checks and balances. Ironically, at this point, this particular instinct which helped our species survive has actually turned into a threat to our individual survival.

This applies to just about any area of our lives: in spite of the fact that most of us have most of what we need most of the time our instincts are still telling us to get as much of everything as we can, often to our own detriment.

Sounds like you are suggesting people operate in an instinct of fear.Get it while you can to survive mentality. Worry for tomorrow seems to be a natural tendency for many. I would agree with this.

 

[Quagmire]

Sounds like you are suggesting people operate in an instinct of fear.Get it while you can to survive mentality.

I'm not sure fear is the right word, although there's certainly an element of fear involved on the emotional, rather than the instinctual, level.

Worry for tomorrow seems to be a natural tendency for many. I would agree with this.

Yes, and the ability to think abstractly---about the future for instance---is another trait that played a huge role in helping our species to succeed. But again it's a trait that manifests itself differently in a civilized setting than in a primitive one: the concerns of primitive man were simple and self-explanatory and his opportunities comparatively limited. Add to that the fact that primitive humans lived within a social structure based on co-operation rather than competition. One of the beneifits of this arrangement was that early humans tended to view circumstances in terms of what was best for the tribe rather than the individual. The individuals welfare was so intimately interwoven with the welfare of the tribe that it would have been unnatural for him to even make a distinction between the two. Within the limits of his own tribe his thoughts were uniformly altruistic.

A social setting such as our own that teaches us to view society as something outside of or other than ourselves fosters an attitude of primary self-concern. Coupled with an almost endless array of opportunities and an underlying subtext of entitlement and you have an almost perfect prescription for neurosis.

 

[Apollonius]

What do you think formed Gods law? Where did he come with the laws and what made his existence go this course? If you are all powerful and existed forever what makes you determine what is good or not, why do you like burning for cattle versus the offering of gold and gems? I've always been curious on what influences the allmighty?

The universe itself is encoded with a certain DNA by which it's self-regulated. Likewise, this underlying structure maintains the integrity of the cosmos and thus in time, rishi's, seers and sages came to understand the intricacies of all that Nature reveals to those with the initiative and desire to grasp that which had been kept hidden from the foundations of the world. Such ancient wise men began to unravel certain mysteries and to understand that a myriad of opposites and contrary forces were at work which in turn demanded the observation of certain 'laws' which, were they to be broken will exact penalties for such transgressions.

 

[I Am]

My oppinion:

Morality is subjective to those beings able to conceive of it. "God" should not be used as a term for a figure which focuses on matters only meaningful to those aforementioned, sentient beings. "God", rather, is an established concept of a certain transcendental truth.