God Recreated the Earth 6,000 Years Ago!

[leibowde84]

that you refuse and label the obvious as gibberish.....means nothing

What do you mean here, specifically? Please expand on your position.

 

[Thief]

What do you mean here, specifically? Please expand on your position.

the singularity is a single point
it will not move of it's own volition

Spirit first.

 

[leibowde84]

the singularity is a single point
it will not move of it's own volition

Spirit first.

Again, you are ignoring scientific understanding in general, and our KNOWLEDGE, that it is absurd to apply the physical law of cause and effect to the Big Bang. How do you explain this rejection of basic scientific understanding, in that we know cause and effect cannot honeatly be applied to the Big Bang?

 

[Ouroboros]

I believe the peace of heaven is guarded.

What does that mean? Guarded how? By who? From what?

 

[Thief]

Again, you are ignoring scientific understanding in general, and our KNOWLEDGE, that it is absurd to apply the physical law of cause and effect to the Big Bang. How do you explain this rejection of basic scientific understanding, in that we know cause and effect cannot honeatly be applied to the Big Bang?

substance won't move of it's own volition.....
science

 

[Thief]

What does that mean? Guarded how? By who? From what?

I counter with an obvious question.....what?.....they let everyone in?

 

[Ouroboros]

I counter with an obvious question.....what?.....they let everyone in?

Who's they and who's everyone?

 

[Thief]

Who's they and who's everyone?

as if you never heard of heaven?

 

[Ouroboros]

as if you never heard of heaven?

So heaven is they or anyone?

 

[BilliardsBall]

And exactly how could you possibly know that? been there?

You are showing you haven't read the text. Where the text says something occurred in Heaven, you cannot logically say it's wrong simply because it hasn't happened on Earth. What do you think of the prophet Isaiah's visit to Heaven, as recorded in the Tanakh?

 

[BilliardsBall]

And let me suggest that "figurative" can also be viewed to be true about how to interpret the creation accounts.

That is a possibility, albeit an unlikely possibility. Again, Moses said we have Saturday off because God made the Earth and all we see in six days.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Cause and effect only gets you to a cause of the Big Bang. What evidence do you have to deny that it was a natural cause. Possibly and infinite progression of big bangs or big crunches? Or whose to say that our universe isn't merely part of a black hole in some other universe. We have no way of ruling these out, as the laws of physics and even quantum mechanics are thrown out the window when considering such poaibilities.

So, long story short, we know that the laws of physics and quantum mechanics aren't relevant to the "time" before the big bang, and we also know that, even with black holes in our own universe, these laws don't mean a thing. So, I think we are all curious as to why you are so confident that "cause and effect" with the cause being God, necessarily is a plausible hypothesis, graduating it to the level of a "theory" in the scientific context.

What evidence do you have that cause and effect must be adhered to even in conditions where the laws of physics and quantum theory must be ignored?

In the hundreds of comments I've read from you, you have yet to provide any tangible evidence that your hypothesis is even valid, let alone that it can honestly be referred to as a theory.

You have identified as a Christian. Are you saying the Big Bang (creation of this universe) was not led by God? Do you believe in a God who is much more hands off regarding creation itself?

 

[metis]

You are showing you haven't read the text. Where the text says something occurred in Heaven, you cannot logically say it's wrong simply because it hasn't happened on Earth. What do you think of the prophet Isaiah's visit to Heaven, as recorded in the Tanakh?

My point was not related to the Isaiah text but was a reference to you supposedly knowing with certainty that there actually is a heaven. So, maybe answer the question?

 

[metis]

That is a possibility, albeit an unlikely possibility. Again, Moses said we have Saturday off because God made the Earth and all we see in six days.

Why is it supposedly "unlikely"? No scientific nor any objective historical research gives any indication whatsoever of a 6-day creation.

 

[leibowde84]

You have identified as a Christian. Are you saying the Big Bang (creation of this universe) was not led by God? Do you believe in a God who is much more hands off regarding creation itself?

I would say that we just don't have enough understanding to make a decision on that. We have to be patient and allow scientific progress to keep improving.

As for me, it seems that the evidence is starting to even point to multiple universes existing alongside ours. This is still incredibly new, as, before this, the multiverse hypothesis was theoretical. Even though it seemed like it was impossible, they made progress. And, who's to say that God didn't create many universes each with many different locations of life?

 

[BilliardsBall]

My point was not related to the Isaiah text but was a reference to you supposedly knowing with certainty that there actually is a heaven. So, maybe answer the question?

I don't understand. As a Jewish person, you know from Tanakh Isaiah met God in Heaven. Tanakh is the perfect, revealed Word of God. Why is it a problem for you, for me to believe in Heaven?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Why is it supposedly "unlikely"? No scientific nor any objective historical research gives any indication whatsoever of a 6-day creation.

It's unlikely that in the perfect Tanakh of God, Moses said, "Take Saturdays off because God made the Earth in six non-literal, allegorical, eon-long days." He said quite the opposite. You may have to choose someday, ultimately choose, between whether you will go on empirical experience, research from scientists who were not present at Creation, or God above. I pray you make a sound choice.

Now before, the atheists on this forum whine about how I'm being anti-scientific, if there is a God, and if He intervenes and “from time to time violates the laws of nature” then it only follows that science’s predictions based on those laws will be incorrect “from time to time”. That certainly doesn’t invalidate science, nor make it invalid to make predictions based upon the laws of nature. It simply means the universe isn’t entirely mechanistic.

Do you believe God is far removed from us and has left us in a purely mechanistic universe? If so, I ask why your avatar says things like "Jewish spiritual renewal". The Tanakh says quite the opposite--literally in thousands of different verses--to the concept that God has abandoned Israel, the Creation, and all mankind and nature. QUITE the opposite. Be consistent, please.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I would say that we just don't have enough understanding to make a decision on that. We have to be patient and allow scientific progress to keep improving.

As for me, it seems that the evidence is starting to even point to multiple universes existing alongside ours. This is still incredibly new, as, before this, the multiverse hypothesis was theoretical. Even though it seemed like it was impossible, they made progress. And, who's to say that God didn't create many universes each with many different locations of life?

Maybe He did. How does that remove our moral obligations here? It doesn't.

If you are in a Matrix, and your real self is swimming in another dimension somewhere, understand that you STILL chose incarnation in a moral universe with moral responsibilities. And that the Bible says--unless you feel I've misread it--God made us and this universe, personally.

The Big Bang occurred because of three possible reasons only:

1. An inside catalyst
2. An outside catalyst
3. A combination of the two

Do you think God was active or inactive at this stage of the game? Because even if He was inactive, He must have set the precursors to the catalyst(s) to make order from the chaos, matter, space, energy and time from--nothing.

 

[metis]

I don't understand. As a Jewish person, you know from Tanakh Isaiah met God in Heaven. Tanakh is the perfect, revealed Word of God. Why is it a problem for you, for me to believe in Heaven?

I couldn't care less if you believe in heaven, just that it's simply not a slam-dunk fact that it actually exists.

"Belief" is not the same as "evidence", and you cannot provide one shred of objective evidence that it exists. It was you who insisted that it exists, and I never made one single statement to suggest that it couldn't exist.

 

[metis]

It's unlikely that in the perfect Tanakh of God, Moses said, "Take Saturdays off because God made the Earth in six non-literal, allegorical, eon-long days." He said quite the opposite. You may have to choose someday, ultimately choose, between whether you will go on empirical experience, research from scientists who were not present at Creation, or God above. I pray you make a sound choice.

Now before, the atheists on this forum whine about how I'm being anti-scientific, if there is a God, and if He intervenes and “from time to time violates the laws of nature” then it only follows that science’s predictions based on those laws will be incorrect “from time to time”. That certainly doesn’t invalidate science, nor make it invalid to make predictions based upon the laws of nature. It simply means the universe isn’t entirely mechanistic.

Do you believe God is far removed from us and has left us in a purely mechanistic universe? If so, I ask why your avatar says things like "Jewish spiritual renewal". The Tanakh says quite the opposite--literally in thousands of different verses--to the concept that God has abandoned Israel, the Creation, and all mankind and nature. QUITE the opposite. Be consistent, please.

First of all, you start out by insinuating that I'm an "atheist"-- I'm not.

Secondly, the issue is how to interpret Torah in the context of the creation accounts, and our sages have long debated this issue because it can be and has been interpreted in different ways.

Thirdly, there simply is no scientific evidence that posits a divine creation, although that doesn't mean that it's not possible.

Fourthly, if you believe for one second that "God has abandoned Israel, the Creation, and all mankind and nature", that is totally opposed to what the Tanakh states, including in terms of God saying He would not abandon us. Maybe you think God is a liar? That might not be the best position to take. And why in the world would God abandon "Creation, and all mankind and nature"? That is so bizarre that I need not even comment on it.

And finally, if you actually could look at what I've posted without distorting it and throwing things into it I never stated nor implied, I think I'm quite "consistent". The real issue is that you just don't agree with my consistency.