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God Recreated the Earth 6,000 Years Ago!

Do you believe God possibly recreated the Earth 6,000 years ago?

  • Yes, it's possible that God recreated the Earth 6,000 years ago.

    Votes: 13 11.6%
  • No, there is no way that the Earth could have been recreated 6,000 years ago.

    Votes: 99 88.4%

  • Total voters
    112

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
I may not have always succeeded in doing so, but I've made every effort to be civil, and more so, respectful. Calling my Savior, Lord and Master a zombie is not helping your cause.

You are only asking rhetorical questions, unless I misunderstand your viewpoint, in this last post of yours, so Jesus will reveal truth to you. I suggest, no, I beg of you, humbly, with all respect, choose the timing of when you will have truth revealed to you with care.

If I asserted to you that the Flying Spaghetti Monster would soon reveal truth to you, should you only open your heart to him, would that mean much to you?

Of course not.

Similarly, your assertion that this Jesus character will reveal the truth of a mythological global flood to me means nothing, with all due respect.

I'm not attempting to be offensive - I'm just highlighting how pointless that assertion is in this conversation.
You've gone from attempting to prove that a global flood actually occurred 7,000 years ago, to attempting to discredit huge swaths of scientific information and discovery (not least of which include Geology and Archaeology), and now you're just telling me that Jesus will show me the way...

Which part of that argument is supposed to be taken seriously?
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
If I asserted to you that the Flying Spaghetti Monster would soon reveal truth to you, should you only open your heart to him, would that mean much to you?

Of course not.

Similarly, your assertion that this Jesus character will reveal the truth of a mythological global flood to me means nothing, with all due respect.

I'm not attempting to be offensive - I'm just highlighting how pointless that assertion is in this conversation.
You've gone from attempting to prove that a global flood actually occurred 7,000 years ago, to attempting to discredit huge swaths of scientific information and discovery (not least of which include Geology and Archaeology), and now you're just telling me that Jesus will show me the way...

Which part of that argument is supposed to be taken seriously?

I'm sorry for being unclear. Please allow me to rephrase my comments:

1. I'd like to discuss (or debate) the Flood issues with you but you keep reverting to ad homs, denigrating Jesus and me, and rhetorical questions.

2. You will learn truth. As the Bible says, I pray you learn it here and go to Heaven rather than be lost forever - there truth is also learned but beyond redemption. You claim to be zealous for the truth. To my way of thinking, that will include both of us learning from one another rather than resorting to rhetoric and attacks.

Thanks.
 

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry for being unclear. Please allow me to rephrase my comments:

1. I'd like to discuss (or debate) the Flood issues with you but you keep reverting to ad homs, denigrating Jesus and me, and rhetorical questions.

2. You will learn truth. As the Bible says, I pray you learn it here and go to Heaven rather than be lost forever - there truth is also learned but beyond redemption. You claim to be zealous for the truth. To my way of thinking, that will include both of us learning from one another rather than resorting to rhetoric and attacks.

Thanks.
Well, so you know where I stand in this conversation, I have as much regard for the character of Jesus as I do the character of Spiderman. You may find that offensive, but there's not reason too. I'm not saying anything negative about you for believing such things. I'm simply letting you know that any claims of mythological guidance aren't going to hold much weight. You should make your arguments for this supposed event or you shouldn't. It's very simple and I'm not really sure why you haven't done so yet...

If I call you out on a huge flaw in your reasoning for this global deluge, it is not personal. This is a debate and a discussion - addressing your claims as being bogus does not immediately imply that I'm saying anything negative about you personally.

So, again, just present what you've got and let's go on with this.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Well, so you know where I stand in this conversation, I have as much regard for the character of Jesus as I do the character of Spiderman. You may find that offensive, but there's not reason too. I'm not saying anything negative about you for believing such things. I'm simply letting you know that any claims of mythological guidance aren't going to hold much weight. You should make your arguments for this supposed event or you shouldn't. It's very simple and I'm not really sure why you haven't done so yet...

If I call you out on a huge flaw in your reasoning for this global deluge, it is not personal. This is a debate and a discussion - addressing your claims as being bogus does not immediately imply that I'm saying anything negative about you personally.

So, again, just present what you've got and let's go on with this.

But I've already presented some of what I have with no responses but "Are you stupid? Have you never heard of radiometric dating?"

I'm not stupid. I'm somewhat conversant with how radiometric dating works and what is controversial about it.

Maybe we could discuss radiometric dating (maybe!) if you would admit that it is the sole tool we can use to prove civilization existed pre-Flood, which it did, of course. But of course, also, a global catastrophe should have removed most all traces of pre-Flood civilization.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Not learning from you. You seem to avoid what credible people teach.

I now you don't read my posts carefully before replying, so I'll help you. Not learning truth from me. Learning truth from Jesus. The truth is He died for your sin and mine. We may trust in Him and be ushered into much truth now.
 

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
But I've already presented some of what I have with no responses but "Are you stupid? Have you never heard of radiometric dating?"

I've never said you were stupid. I've confronted your assertions with the question of why I should discredit academic understandings. It's a very simple question.
Why should I discredit academic discoveries in the fields of archaeology, geology, paleontology, and radiometric dating.
There is nothing rhetorical about that question.

I'm not stupid. I'm somewhat conversant with how radiometric dating works and what is controversial about it.

Again, I never said that you were.
What controversies are you aware of the professionals in the field are not? (This is not a rhetorical question)

Maybe we could discuss radiometric dating (maybe!) if you would admit that it is the sole tool we can use to prove civilization existed pre-Flood, which it did, of course. But of course, also, a global catastrophe should have removed most all traces of pre-Flood civilization.

Then discuss it. That's what I've been trying to get you to do for days now...

I will not admit that it is "the sole tool used to date civilizations pre-flood" simply because there is no such evidence of a flood. That qualifier cannot be used until you've established some support for it other than quoting scripture. I will readily admit that Radiometric dating is, however, one of 3 methods used for dating fragments older than humanity's written record.

Provide something other than conjecture to support your assertion that a global flood event ever took place.
That is not a rhetorical request. It is very simple.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
I now you don't read my posts carefully

Why would I ?

Its not academic, and most say myth based.


. Learning truth from Jesus

You mean John the Baptist teachings? Im sure most teachings of Jesus were first Johns before Jesus took over his movement.


Besides all NT was based on not a single eyewitness to ant event.

The truth is He died for your sin and mine

That is not truth.

It is your opinion ONLY
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
in Genesis where it says the earth was shapeless and empty the words in the Hebrew text are "bohu" and "tohu". Later in the Bible it says God did not create the earth "bohu" and "tohu" . something happened to cause the earth to become this way. that was Satan's rebellion and fall from Heaven. Satan destroyed the earth in anger. God came back and re-created it in it's present condition. whether that was 6,000 years ago or some other length of time is perhaps open to discussion.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
the vast majority of religion is unsubstantiated. it requires faith and many people come up shortin the faith department. it is their loss and not mine
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
I've never said you were stupid. I've confronted your assertions with the question of why I should discredit academic understandings. It's a very simple question.
Why should I discredit academic discoveries in the fields of archaeology, geology, paleontology, and radiometric dating.
There is nothing rhetorical about that question.



Again, I never said that you were.
What controversies are you aware of the professionals in the field are not? (This is not a rhetorical question)



Then discuss it. That's what I've been trying to get you to do for days now...

I will not admit that it is "the sole tool used to date civilizations pre-flood" simply because there is no such evidence of a flood. That qualifier cannot be used until you've established some support for it other than quoting scripture. I will readily admit that Radiometric dating is, however, one of 3 methods used for dating fragments older than humanity's written record.

Provide something other than conjecture to support your assertion that a global flood event ever took place.
That is not a rhetorical request. It is very simple.

I still have no interest in fighting with a pedant, sorry.

Okay, don't admit that it is "the sole tool used to date civilizations pre-flood" as if you don't get my point. Right around the time when people like me say the Flood happened, people like you must resort to non-documentary and often, apocryphal, even conjectural, constructs of society. If it makes you feel better to say, "We must resort to radiometric dating pre-circa 5,000 BP" I might be able to have a discussion with you, but I'm feeling a bit burned, and I doubt it.

Nor was I asking you to "discredit academic discoveries". I was asking you if you're open to different interpretation of such recognized discoveries. You are not. I've said already in this thread that for radiometric dating to work like most of us think it should, for a 100-million-year fossil to be 100 million years old, assumptions have to be made about all kinds of things, including solar radiation fluctuation, etc.

A third way you ARE being rhetorical is asking "What controversies are you aware of the professionals in the field are not?" I call baloney. You make it sound like everyone in all these fields is totally sympatico, like dating ancient fossils or civilizations is like looking at calendars tied to atomic clocks. No. That's somewhere between disingenuous and just blind. In my own lifetime, the age of the Earth has moved up and down by more than a billion years and is currently, still, in dispute. If you used more correct terms, even, like "most scientists believe the Earth is X years old..." but I digress.

And I see no apology, none, for your pillory against Jesus Christ. I came to ReligiousForums.com and started contributing because I saw that even skeptics could post here while being respectful of others' beliefs. Calling Jesus Christ a zombie was the last straw. You are here to attack and tear and wound, not to learn anything.

However, if you're open to truth, really, or to even walking a mile in someone else's shoes, you might want to read some of this page, which touches on one of several issues in modern radiometric dating:

Dinosaur Soft Tissue is Original Biological Material | Bob Enyart Live

Thank you.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
If it makes you feel better to say, "We must resort to radiometric dating pre-circa 5,000 BP"

It is embarrassing that people do not understand how many different dating methods are and can be used, besides the one you refuse due to fanaticism and fundamentalism ONLY.

While the whole world accepts academia and education and knowledge.


The age of the earth is a fact. Its not up for debate.


I came to ReligiousForums.com and started contributing


Telling people the opposite of what academia teaches is not contributing.
 

David M

Well-Known Member
Okay, don't admit that it is "the sole tool used to date civilizations pre-flood" as if you don't get my point. Right around the time when people like me say the Flood happened, people like you must resort to non-documentary and often, apocryphal, even conjectural, constructs of society. If it makes you feel better to say, "We must resort to radiometric dating pre-circa 5,000 BP".

He should not admit it because its not true, Carbon dating and Ar/Ar dating are not the only methods. The pre-circa 5,000BP period fits well with the ranges of the following methods.

Thermoluminescense
Optical Dating
Archeomagnetic
Lead Corrosion
Amino-Acid
Rehydroxylation (Probable. Still being tested but should be good for about 10k years back).

And all these give consistent dates with the radiometric techniques.
 

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
I still have no interest in fighting with a pedant, sorry.

Okay, don't admit that it is "the sole tool used to date civilizations pre-flood" as if you don't get my point. Right around the time when people like me say the Flood happened, people like you must resort to non-documentary and often, apocryphal, even conjectural, constructs of society. If it makes you feel better to say, "We must resort to radiometric dating pre-circa 5,000 BP" I might be able to have a discussion with you, but I'm feeling a bit burned, and I doubt it.

Nor was I asking you to "discredit academic discoveries". I was asking you if you're open to different interpretation of such recognized discoveries. You are not. I've said already in this thread that for radiometric dating to work like most of us think it should, for a 100-million-year fossil to be 100 million years old, assumptions have to be made about all kinds of things, including solar radiation fluctuation, etc.

A third way you ARE being rhetorical is asking "What controversies are you aware of the professionals in the field are not?" I call baloney. You make it sound like everyone in all these fields is totally sympatico, like dating ancient fossils or civilizations is like looking at calendars tied to atomic clocks. No. That's somewhere between disingenuous and just blind. In my own lifetime, the age of the Earth has moved up and down by more than a billion years and is currently, still, in dispute. If you used more correct terms, even, like "most scientists believe the Earth is X years old..." but I digress.

And I see no apology, none, for your pillory against Jesus Christ. I came to ReligiousForums.com and started contributing because I saw that even skeptics could post here while being respectful of others' beliefs. Calling Jesus Christ a zombie was the last straw. You are here to attack and tear and wound, not to learn anything.

So you're not going to offer defenses for the positions of yours that I am questioning?

However, if you're open to truth, really, or to even walking a mile in someone else's shoes, you might want to read some of this page, which touches on one of several issues in modern radiometric dating:

Dinosaur Soft Tissue is Original Biological Material | Bob Enyart Live

Thank you.

Now we are getting somewhere!
(For reference, it would be unwise of you to make the assumption that I don't spend a considerable amount of time reading apologetic material...)

While this page has quite a bit of information on it, I don't see links to the studies that were done by Horner and Schweitzer about WHY the soft tissue was still existent within the specimen.

Dinosaur Shocker | Science | Smithsonian
This describes the find, somewhat, from 2006.

Controversial T. Rex Soft Tissue Find Finally Explained
Here's an explanation of that find, from 2013.

Analyses of Soft Tissue from Tyrannosaurus rex Suggest the Presence of Protein
Here's the actual journal entry, published in 2007.

There is a very good reason why the T-Rex collagen was not dated using methods that have a a time limit of roughly 60,000 years, and it's simply because there was no reason to. If all data surrounding a find indicate that it's definitely millions of years old, and there are very good and reasonable explanations for how such tissue was preserved, then why should a limited dating method be applied to such a discovery?

Also, please note that the soft tissues samples from dinosaurs and other long-extinct organisms are not found en masse. The samples that do exist are quite scarce.
A challenge to this Creationist position that everything was killed all at once in some great flood would be simple to formulate. If everything is only a few thousand years old, then why don't we find these soft tissues everywhere, and on everything that's buried in the strata? I mean, it's quite simple. If there was a global flood that killed everything on the planet 7,000 years ago so that Noah and 7 other people could repopulate it, then shouldn't ALL paleontological discoveries be just as fresh? Shouldn't they all have some amount of soft tissue on them? Since dinosaurs and humans lived together a few thousand years ago, why aren't human remains found in the same strata as dinosaurs? Why are they always found in separate layers? Why is there not a single solitary piece of evidence to link human and dinosaur cohabitation? Why are there no complex modern organisms found in smaller layers?

If creationists can simply support one of those charges, then they can be taken somewhat seriously.
Simply supplying a link to an apologetic website which doesn't even bother questioning itself is not good enough to support to the initial premise that all geologic strata exist as they do because of a Biblical global flood.

I'm all up for learning, if you'd simply supply me with something new.
 
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