God(s) don't create morals or moral systems . . .

[charles brough]

We do not have moral systems because they are imposed on us. We have them because we are social beings. We evolved as small-group primates through millions of years of evolution. In order for such social groups to function, each member had to have evolved in him or her a set of innate social/moral feeling, conscience, instinct or "hard wiring" in order for the group to survive. This is true with most mammals and all primates.

If you do a favor for someone but that person does not bother to return the favor when you need it, it is normal to feel angry. It has been observed that a male chimp can get angry enough to attack the one who failed to return the favor. That is our sense of both fairness and justice. The Alpha male's dedication to protecting the group is another. His controlling the male juveniles is still another. Mothers caring for their young also.

Our moral systems are only a specific and agreed upon manner of expressing our social nature so that our enlarged groups can operate more efficiently. They are not made and imposed by "God's" but evolve through a process of natural selection termed "social evolution" in book "The Last Civilization."

Name any moral law and let's see if I can't come up with innate social source of it . . .

 

[9Westy9]

Kidnapping - Judges 21

 

[Me Myself]

I beleive moral evolves from inside out from what God made us with in the first place.

Ultimately, feeling angry doesn´t feel "nice" even for the angry person, and most of his biological system would agree with me.

 

[BruceDLimber]

>God(s) don't create morals or moral systems.

You are most welcome to your opinion!

Of course, a few billion of us disagree with you.

Bruce

 

[flouncing floo]

I don't know much about other faiths, but think the God of the Bible is immoral!

 

[Breathe]

Well, yeah.


Simply for argument's sake, however, could it not be argued that these are, or were, put in place by a deity--that we were given the ability to be social because of it?

 

[9Westy9]

>God(s) don't create morals or moral systems.

You are most welcome to your opinion!

Of course, a few billion of us disagree with you.

Bruce

and billions take the opposing stance

 

[9Westy9]

Well, yeah.


Simply for argument's sake, however, could it not be argued that these are, or were, put in place by a deity--that we were given the ability to be social because of it?

don't see any reason why a deity couldn't be the source of our societal morals.

 

[Photonic]

>God(s) don't create morals or moral systems.

You are most welcome to your opinion!

Of course, a few billion of us disagree with you.

Bruce

Because numbers are directly equivalent to truth, right?

Please state this opinion as loud as you can so you help make your argument look stupid.

 

[outhouse]

>God(s) don't create morals or moral systems.

You are most welcome to your opinion!

Of course, a few billion of us disagree with you.

Bruce

Can your god even write?? No he cannot. It's my belief all gods are illiterate.

Only people write theology and the morals within its pages.


I can see a clear picture of ancient men in the past, you take a man with a good head on his shoulder and a kind heart and said individual writes a moral guide to help guide the good people to continue doing good and sway bad people to live a better life.


He could say a deity inspired him, in reality though, he was just a good man with a plan.

proof for this is that every god or deity out there! matches the people that created their gods to a T.


Gods dont create morel guides. Good people do

 

[andys]

Joe: "Morality comes from within our hearts, our humanity."
Mary: "But your heart and your humanity were created by god."

And around we go.

So long, everyone. And good luck!

 

[9Westy9]

Joe: "Morality comes from within our hearts, our humanity."
Mary: "But your heart and your humanity were created by god."

And around we go.

So long, everyone. And good luck!

If it gets to that, I feel like spouting complex sounding words. always fun

 

[ManTimeForgot]

Because numbers are directly equivalent to truth, right?

Please state this opinion as loud as you can so you help make your argument look stupid.

Ignoring the actual issue by pointing at a common mistake of argument is not a sign of comprehending the entire issue nor of examining it fairly and without bias.


Do we have any evidence of what actually resulted in the onset of human life? Did anyone observe it? Does anyone know what a created being specifically looks like as opposed to an emergent one? The answer is No. We don't have a spare human race around to compare with so that we can know what a race of humans that was interfered with looks like as opposed to one that was not interfered with.


The best we can do is say that it is unlikely that gods are the source of human morals because they are an unnecessary complication. A+B=D & A+B+C=D. C = Divine intervention. D = Morality. If you can get to D without it, then that is a fairly compelling inductive reason for not believing that C is necessary. But the problem with this is that real life is not as simple nor absolute as the logic stated above. Just because we cannot yet see why C might make it easier to reach D or how C might influence things to have a visible effect, does not mean that one does not exist.

A dearth of evidence means that no conclusion should be made. It is all well and good to claim you personally find the chances of morality being outsourced to divinity as being rather small, but since we don't actually have the scope to rule out or rule in favor of that occurring we cannot actually dismiss it entirely as you seem want to do.

MTF

 

[BruceDLimber]

He could say a deity inspired him, in reality though, he was just a good man with a plan.

You, too, are most welcome to your opinion.

But since your mind is so obviously closed to any other view, I won't even bother with this further.

 

[Erebus]

We do not have moral systems because they are imposed on us. We have them because we are social beings. We evolved as small-group primates through millions of years of evolution. In order for such social groups to function, each member had to have evolved in him or her a set of innate social/moral feeling, conscience, instinct or "hard wiring" in order for the group to survive. This is true with most mammals and all primates.

100% agreed

I will say though that certain gods work well as archetypes for particular emotions and moral conventions. Whether you choose to make use of this (or even see any point to it at all) really comes down to individual choice.

 

[charles brough]

. . . certain gods work well as archetypes for particular emotions and moral conventions. Whether you choose to make use of this (or even see any point to it at all) really comes down to individual choice.

Oh yes, I agree. I say that moral systems are ideologically evolved and attributed to some god or the god, but they evolve to serve the function of refining and adapting our social nature to the changes society requires.

 

[idav]

Name any moral law and let's see if I can't come up with innate social source of it . . .

God does give pretty good morals. Just last night God told me I could cut a persons foot off if they step on my land without permission. God is very just and reasonable like that. Suprised it didn't make it into the bible or quran(i'll have to check).

 

[Erebus]

Oh yes, I agree. I say that moral systems are ideologically evolved and attributed to some god or the god, but they evolve to serve the function of refining and adapting our social nature to the changes society requires.

:yes: agreed

 

[Father Heathen]

>God(s) don't create morals or moral systems.

You are most welcome to your opinion!

Of course, a few billion of us disagree with you.

Bruce

And this is relevant how?

 

[Father Heathen]

Morality, at least in the modern, civilized world, is formulated via reason and compassion rather than from superstition and mythology.