God screwed Adam and Eve

[JustWondering]

Friend rageoftyrael,



IT surely is like that!
The MIND itself is the root CAUSE & EFFECT.
Allow the thoughts to settle down like ripples in a lake and the reflection of the moon is clear, Truth reflects on its own on a thoughtless mind.
Love & rgds

No bias, labels, or BS muddying the waters. Much more acceptable to me than all the theist's fairy tales.

 

[Watchmen]

According to God we were already like him. The FALL is the thing that made us like him.

Since we were like him....according to God....we could no longer eat from the tree of life. SO he kicked us out of the garden. So according to the bible your little theory isn't holding up very well.

We did become like Him at the Fall in one small, but important, aspect. However, the Fall was just the flipping of the switch. We have a long way to go before we are fully like Him. So, my "little theory" holds up just fine.

 

[Rogue Cardinal]

We did become like Him at the Fall in one small, but important, aspect. However, the Fall was just the flipping of the switch. We have a long way to go before we are fully like Him. So, my "little theory" holds up just fine.

good you took the bait. So Man is only some tiny bit like God and yet in Mormon practice we find that men are gods.

"Gods exist, and we better strive to be prepared to be one with them."
-Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol.7, pg237, 9/1/1859


"The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy. Others attain unto a glory and may even be permitted to come into the presence of the Father and the Son; but they cannot reign as kings in glory, because they had blessings offered unto them, and they refused to accept them."
- Brigham Young Journal of Discourses, Vol.11, pg266, 8/19/1866


Joseph SMith clearly perverted what was in the Bible to justify his own selfish needs.

 

[Sententia]

Its easier to believe you know something or understand something others simply can not fathom rather then admit you have no idea and may have simply been tricked.

 

[Sententia]

We did become like Him at the Fall in one small, but important, aspect. However, the Fall was just the flipping of the switch. We have a long way to go before we are fully like Him. So, my "little theory" holds up just fine.

Technically I guess its not misusing the word theory but I think it would be better understood as what I assume your implied meaning to theory in this instance truly is. That is mere conjecture and unproved assumptions.

On a personal note... Do you believe genesis the result of the divine? I think the numerous opinions are beyond the scope of this discussion but the origin of the text in almost any thing I have seen advanced is worldly and of humans. (And the process was distinctly human... over the process of years... redaction... culling of many ancient sources etc)

Now I am not one to discount the wisdom of texts despite their age but the supernatural references etc can easily be explained in my mind to what one of that time might have truly believed based on actual research of that era. They didn't know any better.

 

[sputnik323]

Joseph SMith clearly perverted what was in the Bible to justify his own selfish needs.

Yeah cause there are absolutely no instances in the bible of polygamy! oh wait... its full of them.

 

[Rogue Cardinal]

Yeah cause there are absolutely no instances in the bible of polygamy! oh wait... its full of them.

And in every case.....the participants suffer for it.........

And God and Jesus both say that marriage is one man and one woman.

 

[sputnik323]

And in every case.....the participants suffer for it.........

And God and Jesus both say that marriage is one man and one woman.

And marriage can be between one man and another man, it depends on the political climate of the time.

As for the bible God didn't condemn David for having multiple wives, but for taking another man's wife. Suffering for family disputes seems like a giant stretch to make a claim that God bans multiple wives when people like Abraham, Israel, the Jewish kings, and many others had many wives. Hell, Solomon had over 1000. In a day when you would be stoned to death for doing too much on the sabbath day - I'm sure if multiple wives was against any kind of law, the people would have killed them too.

 

[Rogue Cardinal]

And marriage can be between one man and another man, it depends on the political climate of the time.

As for the bible God didn't condemn David for having multiple wives, but for taking another man's wife. Suffering for family disputes seems like a giant stretch to make a claim that God bans multiple wives when people like Abraham, Israel, the Jewish kings, and many others had many wives. Hell, Solomon had over 1000. In a day when you would be stoned to death for doing too much on the sabbath day - I'm sure if multiple wives was against any kind of law, the people would have killed them too.

If we are speaking biblically....there can be no man and man marriages.

Abraham did not have more than one wife. HE had a son with another woman...she was never his wife. It was an arrangement due to AT THE TIME Sarah not being able to bear a child.

You kill yourself by even talking about Solomon

"...of the nations concerning which the Lord said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them...for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love...and his wives turned away his heart. For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart" (1 Kings 11:1-4).

In Solomon's own words on the fruit of screwing around and pleasures of the flesh:

Ecclesiastes 2:10-11
"I denied myself nothing my eyes desired;
I refused my heart no pleasure.
My heart took delight in all my work,
and this was the reward for all my labor. Yet when I surveyed all that my hands had done
and what I had toiled to achieve,
everything was meaningless, a chasing after the wind;
nothing was gained under the sun."

 

[sputnik323]

The problem with solomon wasn't that he had many wives, but that he took wives from other nations. Which was also forbidden/discouraged if you only had one wife.

David's problem wasn't with his multiple wives but another man's wife.

As for Abraham... Gen 16:3 And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

Don't know where you are thinking she wasn't his wife.

I mean if you want ... I could go through and search for all the scriptures relating to prophets and leaders who spoke with God and had multiple wives, then find the ones where some dude gets stoned to death for some Sabbath observance mistake. But that just distracts from the point that many religions and cultures had/have multiple wives. The bible is no different.

 

[Aquitaine]

If I were God, I'd have just changed the forbidden fruit into Sushi, then no-one would've eaten it, ever.

 

[C_U_N_Hell]

I'd rather live for one day and die a wise man than live as an eternal fool.

 

[Watchmen]

good you took the bait. So Man is only some tiny bit like God and yet in Mormon practice we find that men are gods.

"Gods exist, and we better strive to be prepared to be one with them."
-Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol.7, pg237, 9/1/1859


"The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy. Others attain unto a glory and may even be permitted to come into the presence of the Father and the Son; but they cannot reign as kings in glory, because they had blessings offered unto them, and they refused to accept them."
- Brigham Young Journal of Discourses, Vol.11, pg266, 8/19/1866


Joseph SMith clearly perverted what was in the Bible to justify his own selfish needs.

Do you know what the words "become" or "attain" or "strive" or "prepare" mean?

You obviously know nothing of Joseph Smith.

 

[lockyfan]

In Genisis god tells Adam and Eve not to eat from the Treee of Knowledge of good and evil. He then gets mad when they do and kicks them out of the garden,why?

1) How were they suppose to know that eating from the tree would get them kicked out? how were they suppose to know that it was wrong to?

He told them they would die if they ate from the tree. Gen 2:16-17 16 And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.

2) If god opened up the possibility of "free will" with this act, why didn't he just make humans like that from the beginning?

Humans and Angels had free will right from the start, it was not opened up by any act.

If they did not have free ill, how oculd eve have looked and found the tree desirable? Why would God tell them that htey would be punished if they ate of hte fruit? If they did not have free will.

Someone told me oncer that it wasn't "wrong" for them to eat the fruit, but because they didn't listen to god, they were kicked out. If it wasn't wrong, why were they kicked out?

It was wrong for htem to eat the fruit, They were given every toher tree to eat from and as an act of loyalty love and obedience they were to leave one tree out of thousands or even millions alone. How hard is that?

It was hte act of rebellion, that was the sin and that sin is what stopped them from being able o live forever,

They then passed this imperfection onto every other human ever born from human seed (ie man and woman, jesus was already alive in heaven when all this took place, his life was just ransfered into Mary's not created inside her) Jesus died so that we as humans may once again enjoy a paradise but this does not happen until after satan is destroyed

 

[Rogue Cardinal]

Do you know what the words "become" or "attain" or "strive" or "prepare" mean?

You obviously know nothing of Joseph Smith.

Do you understand that Joseph SMith and Brigham Young set themselves up to be KINGS in Heaven....through polygamy? You as a modern member of the LDS are not allowed to practice polygamy....so you are just a lowly person that REFUSED (brighams words) the gift of God.

 

[Sententia]

Joseph Smith indeed.

The plates referenced: Kinderhook plates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not that either has anything to do with my original point, just keeping the discussion lively.

 

[Riverwolf]

If I were God, I'd have just changed the forbidden fruit into Sushi, then no-one would've eaten it, ever.

HEY! I LOVE SUSHI!!! SUSHI IS THE BEST!! (Especially Dragon Rolls... :drool

Then again, if it was Safeway Sushi....

 

[nonbeliever_92]

Where Adam and Eve EVER children? Where they ever BORN? No they were created. So why would you think they were like children when they were not created as such?


It wasn't WRONG to eat from the tree. IT was wrong to lie about it. Not even GOd knew they had done it. What was wrong is that they disobeyed a command from God. It's that simple.


Because God told them not to do something.

Now you SAY they didn't know...but they HIDE from God after the fact. And as a side note let us not forget that I AM an Atheist. So how do I look at this story that I believe to be nothing but allegory and not true at all. What is to be gained from this story? Obey God!! That's what is to be gained. God said do X....they did Y....bad stuff happens. Through out the entire Old Testament this is exactly what happens over and over. God says X....Jews do Y....bad things happen to the Jews that didn't listen....or anyone else that didn't listen. Adam and Eve didn't listen and thus chose a path that led to bad things for them. That's the message of that story and nothing else.


God had to kick them out fo the Garden. IF you READ the bible you would understand that they understood that the tree of life would have made them immortal and God didn't want that....so God kicked them out of the garden for THAT reason and that reason only.

I obviously didn't mean children as literal children, but they were "new" when they were created right? And I too have read the story before, that's why i bring up the subject.

Yes they hide from god after the fact because then they knew it was wrong of them to disobey god, but they didn't know before hand that it was wrong of them becuase they had not yet eaten from the tree of good and evil. They hide because they are obviously guilty, yes.

Adam did try to put the blame on Eve though, but he did not lie. He said "Eve gave me the fruit and I ate from it." Eve says that about the serpent "The serpent told me to eat from the tree and I did" they fessed up, but it wasn't their fault, it was god's and the serpents fault.

Why would god put the tree of life in the garden in the first place? (And wasn't adam allowed to eat from it before he disobeyed?)

Why would god put the tree of good and evil in eden also if he didn't want them eating from it?

 

[Watchmen]

Do you understand that Joseph SMith and Brigham Young set themselves up to be KINGS in Heaven....through polygamy? You as a modern member of the LDS are not allowed to practice polygamy....so you are just a lowly person that REFUSED (brighams words) the gift of God.

You obviously know nothing of true LDS beliefs. We all have the potential to be KINGS in Heaven.

Perhaps you should start a separate thread - though I doubt you're willing to truly listen to the LDS argument.

 

[Watchmen]

Joseph Smith indeed.

The plates referenced: Kinderhook plates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not that either has anything to do with my original point, just keeping the discussion lively.

And a response: How Do We Explain the Early Comments About the Kinderhook Plates?