God the creator, or God the "dictator"?

[Valkyr1a]

God exists, but He did not create us, a better translation is "form" not create. see:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/biblical-debates/22838-gen-1-1-2-creation-ex.html
He is cleaning up a mess He did not make - will only form what wants to be formed.

God does not need us to worship Him, He is glorious with or without us.

There are some things that you cannot give another person. Cannot give them the sense of accomplishment you get when you have worked towards something - built a house, or earned an A - things that if it were just given to you would not bring the same joy. Personal experience, personal battles/victories, some things have to come from within. He shows us how to gain these moments, but cannot give them to us. Some things we have to do for ourselves.

We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in the slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by an offer of a holiday at sea. - CS Lewis

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are achildren of the most High.
(Old Testament | Psalms82:6)

Man, Potential to Become like Heavenly Father (see also Father; Immortality; Perfection)
Gen. 1:26 (Moses 2:26) let them have dominion
Gen. 3:22 (Moses 4:28) man is become as one of us
Lev. 19:2 (1 Pet. 1:16) be holy: for I ... am holy
Ps. 8:5 thou hast made him a little lower than the angels
Ps. 8:6 madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands
Ps. 82:6 ye are gods, and all of you are children of the most High
Matt. 5:48 (3 Ne. 12:48) Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father
Luke 24:39 spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have
John 10:34 (Ps. 82:1–8; D&C 76:58) Is it not written in your law ... Ye are gods
Acts 17:29 we are the offspring of God
Rom. 8:17 heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ
2 Cor. 3:18 changed into the same image from glory to glory
Gal. 4:7 if a son, then an heir of God through Christ
Eph. 4:13 Till we all come ... unto a perfect man
Heb. 12:9 be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live
1 Jn. 3:2 when he shall appear, we shall be like him
Rev. 3:21 him that overcometh will ... sit with me in my throne
2 Ne. 2:25 men are, that they might have joy
3 Ne. 9:17 to them have I given to become the sons of God
3 Ne. 27:27 what manner of men ought ye to be ... even as I am
3 Ne. 28:10 your joy shall be full ... shall be even as I am
D&C 14:7 you shall have eternal life
D&C 88:29 Ye who are quickened by ... celestial glory
D&C 88:107 saints shall ... be made equal with him
D&C 93:20 you shall receive of his fulness, and be glorified
D&C 93:29 Man was also in the beginning with God
D&C 121:32 every man shall enter into his eternal presence
D&C 129:3 spirits of just men made perfect
D&C 130:1 he is a man like ourselves
D&C 130:22 Father has a body of flesh and bones
D&C 131:2 (131:1–4) in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order
D&C 132:20 (132:1–24) shall they be gods, because they have all power
D&C 133:57 that men might be made partakers of the glories
Moses 1:39 to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man
JS-H 1:17 I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy
See also 2 Tim. 2:10–12; 1 Ne. 11:11; D&C 50:24.
(Topical Guide | MMan, Potential to Become like Heavenly Father:Entry)

Good point. But "God does not need us to worship Him, He is glorious with or without us. " You are wrong on that one.

 

[idea]

And no, Bible is neither a work of fiction nor a novel.

I agree for

3 ...the eyes of them that see shall not be dim, and the ears of them that hear shall hearken.
(Old Testament | Isaiah 32:3)

 

[CarlinKnew]

First of all, I really don't understand you and the Omar guy. Yes, I support the bible in this particular issue, that doesn't mean I am a christian or that I even believe in God. About the mistranslations, believe I know because I read this texts in the Original Greek form since I know Greek and they have nothing to do with the foolishness of versions like the one of king James for example. I simply asked you and the users to think about the argument and post a comment; if you want to talk about the mistranslations of the bible, or any other kind of proof that God exists or whatever else you want to talk about you can always pm me, make a new post, IM me on msn and so on. I am not saying that your points are not interesting, I will be more than glad to share my ideas with you guys its just that.. its quite irrelevant in this post.(L

It is relevant. I replied to your question by calling the Abrahamic God jealous and evil, and I supported my claim by quoting scripture. If you think those passages are mistranslations then I'd like to hear your correct translations.

 

[idea]

Good point. But "God does not need us to worship Him, He is glorious with or without us. " You are wrong on that one.

I think it would be prideful to think that we could add to the glory of God in any way...

Can God be more glorious?

He was this glorious long before we were formed. He is unchanging.

When we were formed from the premordial chaos, we did not add to His glory. He already was who He was.

 

[CarlinKnew]

And no, Bible is neither a work of fiction nor a novel. Trust me on that one, the Bible is more than that but obviously you either didn't read it correctly or you didn't understand it. I don't blame you, understanding texts like the Bible is not a college paper.

The Bible is certainly not a college level text. It was strategically written so that almost any literate person could understand it.

 

[idea]

It is relevant. I replied to your question by calling the Abrahamic God jealous and evil, and I supported my claim by quoting scripture. If you think those passages are mistranslations then I'd like to hear your correct translations.

Here are some corrections if you must:
Joseph Smith Translation

example:
21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those awonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine bhand: cbut I will dharden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.
(Old Testament | Exodus 4:21)

Ex. 4: 21The Lord was not responsible for Pharaoh’s hardness of heart. See also, JST, Exodus 7: 3, 13; 9: 12; 10: 1, 20, 27; 11: 10; 14: 4, 8, 17; each reference, when correctly translated, shows that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. (compare Exodus 4: 21; 7: 3, 13; 9: 12; 10: 1, 20, 27; 11: 10; 14: 4, 8, 17; Deuteronomy 2: 30)

the Bible went through the dark ages...

 

[idea]

The Bible is certainly not a college level text. It was strategically written so that almost any literate person could understand it.

With multiple levels so that everyone can understand the parables and symbolism on their own levels. line upon line.


I used to think God was cruel/hypocritical. I don't think that anymore. (Now I know the Holy spirit is real, and can communicate with you... )

 

[Valkyr1a]

The Bible is certainly not a college level text. It was strategically written so that almost any literate person could understand it.

Wrong again Carlin, you should reconsider your sources of information friend. And about the Exodus 20:5, the word doesn't mean jealous, it means vengeful and the point of 20:5 is about the false truth and knowledge and how it will doom people, how the fathers will doom their sons.

 

[CarlinKnew]

Here are some corrections if you must:
Joseph Smith Translation

example:
21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those awonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine bhand: cbut I will dharden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.
(Old Testament | Exodus4:21)

Ex. 4: 21The Lord was not responsible for Pharaoh’s hardness of heart. See also, JST, Exodus 7: 3, 13; 9: 12; 10: 1, 20, 27; 11: 10; 14: 4, 8, 17; each reference, when correctly translated, shows that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. (compare Exodus 4: 21; 7: 3, 13; 9: 12; 10: 1, 20, 27; 11: 10; 14: 4, 8, 17; Deuteronomy 2: 30)

the Bible went through the dark ages...

Funny thing is, God still admits to being jealous in that translation:

Ex 20:5 "Thou shalt not abow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a bjealous God, cvisiting the diniquity of the efathers upon the fchildren unto the third and fourth generation of them that ghate me; "

Reference Search: exodus 20:5

But he did cleverly replace "punishing" with "visiting," isn't that cute

 

[idea]

Funny thing is, God still admits to being jealous in that translation:

Ex 20:5 "Thou shalt not abow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a bjealous God, cvisiting the diniquity of the efathers upon the fchildren unto the third and fourth generation of them that ghate me; "

Reference Search: exodus 20:5

But he did cleverly replace "punishing" with "visiting," isn't that cute

Do you have kids? Do you love them? Have you ever tried to teach them something - something very important - that they refused to listen to?

In any event:
JEALOUS, JEALOUSY. See also Envy
As used in the scriptures, the word jealous has two meanings: (1) to be fervent and to have sensitive and deep feelings about someone or something, and (2) to be envious of someone or suspicious that another will gain some advantage.
To have fervent feelings: I the Lord am a jealous God, Ex. 20:5 (Deut. 5:9; 6:15; Mosiah 11:22). I will be jealous for my holy name, Ezek. 39:25. I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion, Zech. 1:14.
To be envious or suspicious: Jealousy is the rage of a man, Prov. 6:32–35. Akish began to be jealous of his son, Ether 9:7. Strip yourselves from jealousies and fears, D&C 67:10.
(Guide to the Scriptures | J Jealous, Jealousy.:Entry - To be envious or suspicious)

 

[Valkyr1a]

Funny thing is, God still admits to being jealous in that translation:

Ex 20:5 "Thou shalt not abow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a bjealous God, cvisiting the diniquity of the efathers upon the fchildren unto the third and fourth generation of them that ghate me; "

Reference Search: exodus 20:5

But he did cleverly replace "punishing" with "visiting," isn't that cute

See now if I call you a foolish man, since you were tough by the English fools you will call me a racist. But all I am trying to do is to help you see the actual point here. It's kind of the same what you are doing with your Bible study, YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT.

 

[CarlinKnew]

Do you have kids? Do you love them? Have you ever tried to teach them something - something very important - that they refused to listen to?

Sure, but if they didn't listen to me, I wouldn't punish their grandchildren.

 

[CarlinKnew]

Wrong again Carlin, you should reconsider your sources of information friend. And about the Exodus 20:5, the word doesn't mean jealous, it means vengeful and the point of 20:5 is about the false truth and knowledge and how it will doom people, how the fathers will doom their sons.

Your translation doesn't use the word "jealousy," but if anyone else acted that way, we would call them jealous. God punishes you when you worship someone other than him.

 

[idea]

God gets upset when we settle for something less than we could have.

 

[Valkyr1a]

Sure, but if they didn't listen to me, I wouldn't punish their grandchildren.

How about if you know what is right and they don't listen to you, they chose not to listen to you so they will actually suffer themselves through it, they will punish themselves out of their own foolishness; and therefore their children will suffer also because their parents will lead them into the same foolishness and suffering. Do you get it now?

 

[CarlinKnew]

How about if you know what is right and they don't listen to you, they chose not to listen to you so they will actually suffer themselves through it, they will punish themselves out of their own foolishness; and therefore their children will suffer also because their parents will lead them into the same foolishness and suffering. Do you get it now?

The passage isn't about them punishing themselves. You said it yourself, God is vengeful, and he's the one doing the punishing.

 

[Valkyr1a]

The passage isn't about them punishing themselves. You said it yourself, God is vengeful, and he's the one doing the punishing.

God is the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end. What I said in my posts is correct, but you must understand that God doesn't go around looking for people who disobey him so he can punish them. HE IS NOT A ******* COP. This is as simple as it gets if you still can't get them maybe we can start with the basics all over..

 

[CarlinKnew]

God is the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end. What I said in my posts is correct, but you must understand that God doesn't go around looking for people who disobey him so he can punish them. HE IS NOT A ******* COP. This is as simple as it gets if you still can't get them maybe we can start with the basics all over..

No, he's much worse than a cop

So God doesn't look around and punish those who disobey him?

 

[Valkyr1a]

No, he's much worse than a cop

If you are older than the age of 20, open your ******* eyes because you will always be a miserable weak fool like most of the humans nowadays. And careful because you are the one who makes the choices. That's all I am saying, if you want to take it further make a post with your own argument so we discuss it.

 

[CarlinKnew]

If you are older than the age of 20, open your ******* eyes because you will always be a miserable weak fool like most of the humans nowadays. And careful because you are the one who makes the choices. That's all I am saying, if you want to take it further make a post with your own argument so we discuss it.

Speaking of maturity, let's put the personal attacks aside, shall we? I repeat my question:

You don't think God wants to punish those who disobey him?