"God Will no Longer be 'He' or 'Lord' in Sweden"

[blü 2]

While it's highly unlikely any Christian, Jew, or Muslim here will go for this, isn't there a bit of common sense behind it all? Think of it; "My god has a penis." Or, my god has a vagina." Does this really make sense to you?

So where did Jesus get his Y chromosome then?

 

[idav]

That's nice.

Play coy but I know you were there with all the feminine Jesus talk.

 

[idav]

Well, to mystics at least, even Christian ones, strange gender associations regarding their deity would be nothing new.

Anyone here ever read the medieval poem Granum Sinapis? Especially the beginning. It's in medieval German, so you probably gotta rely on translations, but it mentions things like giving birth to creation, and even the logos streaming forth lustfully out of god's breasts and yet remaining in his womb. The second verse then tames down a bit, only mentioning the fire of love between god and logos, and the holy spirit gushing out of them as the bond connecting them.

Admittedly, such texts are rather an exception. More common would probably have been bride mysticism, I suppose. If done by male authors, they normally self-insert into the bride's role, so on that department there seems to have been little possibility of not putting god into the male role.

So, of all religions Christianity seems like one of the less-likely ones to have a genderless deity, but there were certainly already in historic times such approaches even in that religion.


As far as I know, Logos is Jesus, and not the holy spirit. Also says so on Wikipedia (not like that would be a proof).

Regarding Jesus and/or the holy spirit being considered female - could that have something to do with Gnosticism and them being equated with Sophia?

Yes Sophia does have some to do with it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Play coy but I know you were there with all the feminine Jesus talk.

???

 

[idav]

???

I guess not then. Masculine and feminine personas were no issue for Jesus. They are mainly cultural biases any way.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

What are they going to do about the trinity. Father, son, and Holy Spirit. How can a father be anything but masculine?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I guess not then. Masculine and feminine personas were no issue for Jesus. They are mainly cultural biases any way.

No, I didn't get what you were saying. What "feminine Jesus talk"?

 

[Glaurung]

Is the Church of Sweden actually relevant to anyone in Sweden at this point?

While it's highly unlikely any Christian, Jew, or Muslim here will go for this, isn't there a bit of common sense behind it all? Think of it; "My god has a penis." Or, my god has a vagina." Does this really make sense to you?

Yes, let's pretend the church of Sweden is motivated by reason and not progressive pandering.

Common sense says that God has revealed Himself in (mostly) masculine terms, but that doesn't mean Christians, Jews and Muslims think of God as a man. So you either believe God at His word or you don't. My guess is that the "Church" of Sweden have long replaced the God of the Bible with a god of their own imaginings. Their real faith is progressive politics.

 

[Skwim]

So where did Jesus get his Y chromosome then?

So where did Mary get the sperm?

.

 

[Skwim]

Is the Church of Sweden actually relevant to anyone in Sweden at this point?

Probably no less relevant than your posts.

Yes, let's pretend the church of Sweden is motivated by reason and not progressive pandering.

Why?

Common sense says that God has revealed Himself in (mostly) masculine terms, but that doesn't mean Christians, Jews and Muslims think of God as a man.

From all I've read they don't, but some do consider god to be male ("man" is the term for an adult human male).

So you either believe God at His word or you don't.

His word in the Bible I assume, which depending on the Bible may or may not refer to god in terms of gender. See post #5

And as I pointed out in post #4

"God has traditionally been described using masculine terms in Christian scripture and theology. While this has sometimes given rise to the idea that Christians consider God to be male,the majority of Christian denominations (with the notable exception of Mormonism) accept a God who transcends gender"

.​

 

[Misunderstood]

So where did Jesus get his Y chromosome then?

Good comment, I never thought of that!

 

[Skwim]

I think this is the best reason I have seen so far by Enpch07, if God asked to be referred to in this way would it not be appropriate? I also feel no one here has seen God, so who can contest what God is as far as gender?

A few other reasons I feel his gender should be left as is.

*We are told not to change the Bible. I am posting a link to a page listing why we shouldn't.

9 Bible verses about Adding To The Bible

No one is talking about adding anything, just changing the wording, which is quite common among the various Bible translations.

.

 

[Misunderstood]

No one is talking about adding anything, just changing the wording, which is quite common among the various Bible translations.

.

True, they are not adding anything, but I think we are not to subtract anything either. So they are taking away His gender.

I don't think to many people would like it if we took a big eraser and erased their boy and girl parts making them gender neutral.

 

[Glaurung]

Why?

Because like many of these national churches they've long abandoned even a loose sense of Christian orthodoxy. There have always been disagreements within Christianity, but gender neural pronouns and openly lesbian bishops would have been absurdities for even the most radical until very recently. The move is simply reflective of that church's real beliefs, progressive politics.

From all I've read they don't, but some do consider god to be male ("man" is the term for an adult human male).

Well, Christ as both God and man is male in the biological human sense. But God in His essence is the incomprehensible, utterly transcendent source of all being. God is not a "male" but He is LORD, FATHER and KING.

His word in the Bible I assume, which depending on the Bible may or may not refer to god in terms of gender.

There is only one Bible, translations in and of themselves have no authority. God has revealed Himself in masculine terms, and you either hold fidelity to that revelation or you don't. If you want to worship god as the cosmic earthmother that's fine. But I will laugh at the pretense that such worship is done so out of a commitment to the God claimed to be revealed in Christianity. (Your vestments, bells and incense notwithstanding).

 

[blü 2]

So where did Mary get the sperm?
.

Special delivery, one better than right to the doorstep; or so I understand.

 

[Skwim]

Special delivery, one better than right to the doorstep; or so I understand.

From the Sperm Bank no doubt.

 

[blü 2]

From the Sperm Bank no doubt.

No, I'm told it was a bespoke order.

 

[Father Heathen]

Nobody is anthropomorphizing God. God is genderless in that he does not have any sexual organs to identify himself that way. But he feels that he identifies as a male, per Christ words. To say that you need primary and secondary sex characteristics to match your gender identity is transphobic. You are inadvertently saying that because God does not have primary or secondary sex characteristics that he cannot identify as a he, and instead intentionally misgender him as a her, for your own pleasure. Technically speaking you just committed a hate crime.

Yes, your religion does anthropomorphize god when it assigns human characteristics such as gender, be it male or female. Religions made their gods in man's image, not the other way around. Those who wrote scripture essentially slid their arms up god's backside and used 'him' as a sock puppet by placing their words in 'his' mouth.

 

[Enoch07]

Yes, your religion does anthropomorphize god when it assigns human characteristics such as gender, be it male or female. Religions made their gods in man's image, not the other way around. Those who wrote scripture essentially slid their arms up god's backside and used 'him' as a sock puppet by placing their words in 'his' mouth.

That's what you do, as a non believer. Who thinks that dieties was created by man, it's called projecting. Christians do believe God created man in his image. But that's not anthropomorphizing. Jesus says God was a he. I'll take Jesus at his word for it.

You can believe or not believe whatever you want, but projecting your beliefs on to others is a big no no.

 

[Liu]

You are incorrect. I am not making the assumption because God calls himself the Father. I am going by the scripture I listed in post #2. How do you know that Jesus referring to God as "he" is a limitation of language? You don't, your assuming that. I am not assuming anything. I am going by what Jesus said and taking his word for it. As far as I can tell God identifies as a male, considering how he allowed to be written in his book multiple times that way. Had God listed "she" or "they" I would be arguing for those pronouns instead of "he".

It nevertheless is based on a certain amount of interpretation, even if just a very small one.

Father Heathern used "she" intentionally and multiple times I've seen him do this, instead of "he" God's preferred pronoun.

He did? I found no instance of this in this thread here at least, so I asked.

According Bill C-16 in Canada that is a hate crime. Not that I am saying he should be arrested or fined or anything of the likes. Just saying that his train of thought is considered a hate crime.

People, including my family, also refer to me as a she all the time although I'm a transmale. Not that much of an issue - people need time to adapt after all, and currently I look still pretty feminine, or so I'm told.
I think except for some of my doctors and my therapist, no one in real life has so far used male words in reference to me, except for my new first name, even if they knew that I'm trans.
I don't know whether that would be a hate crime in Canada, but here in Germany it certainly isn't.